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  • Minor novel character terminated wants to appeal the decision

    Although my story takes place in NY (pre 2000 but timeframe needn't be strictly adhered to) if there isn't a NY or NYPD LEO able to answer, I'll happily accept the answer from another state. My question involves a LEO terminated for failure to respond to duty during a governor mandated state of emergency. I've read up on the NY rules & regs on this & it does state an officer can be terminated for this offense. In the story this officer has been terminated but he's decided to fight it & gets his union rep involved. I've already briefly touched on the Command Discipline where the Chief has made the termination decision.
    My questions are:
    1) Should I call this new meeting(?) a 'Grievance', 'Tribunal', or 'Arbitration'?
    2) For whichever above is correct, is it heard by a panel of peers or a judge?

    This novel in the series will only briefly touch on this but I can expand on the theme is subsequent ones. I understand the general public probably wouldn't question however I chose to write this fiction, but just on the off chance any actual LEO's read it I would just like to be as accurate as possible.

    I did ask this exactly worded question in a FB group but unfortunately the only person to respond gave me details about how if the officer broke SOP there would be a formal investigation. You would be given formal charges and an opportunity to prepare for a formal interview with a sergeant from I.A.D​. The facts of the case against the officer, along with a taped interview, go up the chain of command. The chief of police determines the punishment, which could include termination.​

    While this answer is informative, it doesn't touch on my two questions. Can anyone help? Thanks







  • #2
    Wouldn't the order to report for work have to come from the PD? I don't see how the governor can order individual officers around.

    His union would have to decide to fight it; it is not his decision to make. Here the case would go to an arbitrator for an arbitration hearing. An arbitrator is a neutral and independent authority that is external to the organization. Things don't go straight to arbitration; they go through steps, the first of which is the filing of a grievance. I don't know who would hear an initial termination grievance at NYPD.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Just Joe for responding. I appreciate your help!


      Originally posted by just joe View Post
      Wouldn't the order to report for work have to come from the PD? I don't see how the governor can order individual officers around.
      I found a reference in NY that if the governor declares a state of emergency ---like blizzards or flooding--- then all fire, EMS, & LEO's have to work it. Even if they're on a day off or have scheduled for vacation during that time but aren't on vacation yet. My character was told to come in on his day off by the Sergeant but he doesn't obey.

      Originally posted by just joe View Post
      His union would have to decide to fight it; it is not his decision to make. Here the case would go to an arbitrator for an arbitration hearing. An arbitrator is a neutral and independent authority that is external to the organization. Things don't go straight to arbitration; they go through steps, the first of which is the filing of a grievance. I don't know who would hear an initial termination grievance at NYPD.
      Ahh, I will change it to show the union made the decision to fight it. I do have it in the story that there was an investigation first called a Command Discipline where IAB gathered all the evidence, got his side, handed it over to the Captain to decide and that's how he's been fired. The Captain had other options but chose termination.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 1Redhawk View Post
        I found a reference in NY that if the governor declares a state of emergency ---like blizzards or flooding--- then all fire, EMS, & LEO's have to work it. Even if they're on a day off or have scheduled for vacation during that time but aren't on vacation yet. My character was told to come in on his day off by the Sergeant but he doesn't obey.
        Those types of provisions are almost impossible to enforce. I was sick, I was out of town, I’d already started drinking, I couldn’t get there because of the emergency itself.

        Nobody is going to be told to come in for an emergency and flat out say “FU I’m not coming in because I don’t want to” unless they just want to get fired. If there is a major emergency, to the point the governor or mayor declares an emergency, and you don’t want to work, you’re going to know about it. Why would you even answer the phone? If you did answer the phone, why wouldn’t you say you’re sick, or out of town, or consumed alcohol recently?

        My department says I’m on call 34/7/365 unless I’m on scheduled vacation. Can they enforce that? Nope. If I’m not working or scheduled for on-call coverage my work phone is off, and I let my personal phone go to voicemail unless I recognize the number. When I’m off, I’m off. If they want to direct how I use my time I have to be paid.

        When you try to come up with your scenarios you don’t seem to think of the bigger picture, the larger world that your characters live in. There is a Union, there are fellow cops who talk to each other about how the rules work and what the bosses can really do and what they can’t. There are about 40,000 MOS in NYPD. It’s bigger than the Coast Guard. You think in its entire history they’ve never had somebody not make it in for an all-hands? You think every person who didn't was fired?

        There is an episode of Homicide: Life on the Street where a recently promoted Lieutenant tells off a deputy chief in private, and he summarily demotes her to sergeant for insubordination. It doesn’t work that way. Even if the rules would allow that, there is no proof the conversation even happened, there is the Union to consider, there is the aspect of the officer being female and the deputy chief being male, there are requirements for investigation and review… etc.

        That’s what all your stories sound like. There isn’t a larger reality surrounding these characters. Written and unwritten rules.

        I don’t work for NYPD, but cops have done far worse on the clock without getting fired…. Not coming in for unscheduled overtime in a department as large as NYPD is really small potatoes.

        His union would have to decide to fight it; it is not his decision to make. Here the case would go to an arbitrator for an arbitration hearing.
        I don’t know how it is on the east coast, but there are few unions out here but everybody has a legal defense plan thru FOP, CPPA, etc.
        Last edited by tanksoldier; 09-16-2022, 01:12 PM.
        "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

        "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

        Comment


        • 1Redhawk
          1Redhawk commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for the info, Tanksoldier. The story's set in NY but not actually in NYPD; mine's a much smaller force. This is a minor character who's an arrogant, lazy, A-hole nobody likes or wants to partner with so they wouldn't clue him in on anything & it's no loss he's booted. His folder's full of complaints & infractions & he's had plenty of chances. He might've gotten away with just a slapped wrist but he tells IAB, & the Captain to go 'F' themselves. For my story that's a career death in itself.

        • tanksoldier
          tanksoldier commented
          Editing a comment
          It’s your story, but those are the guys who tend to slide on discipline, because they are willing to lie to avoid it. Even if nobody likes him, the department has to prove he violated the policy or a law.

        • Aidokea
          Aidokea commented
          Editing a comment
          The tactical beer is not a lie, you just have to be quick. When they call, have them hold, pound the tactical beer, THEN go back to the phone and tell them you can't come in because you've already started drinking.

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