So What Do You All Think of the Stimulus Bill?

[SOCAleo]

Below is a link to the breakdown of the Stimulus Bill. Is this socialism on steroids or is this something else????


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...imulus-package

[SOCAleo]

My opinion is, it can't be socialism when the government forces you (non-essential) and (non-essential) businesses to shutter their stores and/or stay at home and not work. Essentially robbing you of your livelihood and means to provide for your family. If the government forces you to take such actions then they need to provide you with some sort of income.

Do I like it? No, but it is better than forcing you to stay home with no source of income (no stimulus at all) for an unknown amount of time.

Not sure what the founders would think of this, but I kind of believe they would just recommend self quarantine and for individuals to continue to go about your business at your own risk. No mandate, unless you were known to be infected.

[GangGreen712]

I used to be against handouts and welfare. Then I looked at the numbers and learned that most government welfare goes to the largest companies and the richest individuals whose are "too big to fail." As for the poor? You gotta pull yourself up by your bootstraps. People who are trying hard, especially in times like this, often need a boost.

[SOCAleo]

I don't agree with government handouts at all (corporations/businesses/welfare etc. etc.) but we aren't in a true capitalist society. If we were than there would be no bailouts, welfare and government intervention of any sort in the economy. Back when we were, welfare was usually handled by the churches/places of worship/charity and so on.

True capitalism would have no regulation from the government. If fraud or abuse occurred against a business or person then an enforcement action would take place by a local authority of some sort, based upon Common Law/Mosaic/Judaeo, which is what our judicial system is based upon. For fraud or abuse via consumer/market violations that would be handled via fair weights and measurements laws, which are based upon Common Law. The laws were already there to protect consumers no need to add on top of them, but we did.

But the slippery slope comes when government begins regulating every little thing i.e. FDIC, or 401K max funding per individual, pension guarantees, bank loss protections and on and on. So if the government sets standards, it must enforce them and if the government forces guarantees it must back those guarantees and unfortunately it does with yours and my tax dollars.

So, ultimately we are living in a social democracy and not a pure capitalist society, which means when things go bad in the economy and its due to government intervention then the government needs to pay up or completely get out of the system altogether.

[Saluki89]

I personally can't wait to get my trump bucks.

[retired1995]

More political theater during an election year.

Just 10 years ago we had the N1H1 virus epidemic, 600,000 infected in the US, over 30,000 hospitalized, nearly 10,000 deaths includi9ng about 1,000 children. N1H1 was another of the so-called corona-virus infectious diseases. Hardly a nod from the popular media, and absolutely no record of any criticism directed at the presidential administration of the epidemic.

The differences between 2009-2010 winter season and today's winter season were very simple: back then there was a charismatic new president pushing for national health insurance and worshipped by the popular media; whereas today there is a conservative president widely vilified in the popular media, and another election is coming in about 7 months.

Political theater. Another example of not allowing any crisis to be wasted, especially during an election cycle.

[SOCAleo]

More political theater during an election year.

Just 10 years ago we had the N1H1 virus epidemic, 600,000 infected in the US, over 30,000 hospitalized, nearly 10,000 deaths includi9ng about 1,000 children. N1H1 was another of the so-called corona-virus infectious diseases. Hardly a nod from the popular media, and absolutely no record of any criticism directed at the presidential administration of the epidemic.

The differences between 2009-2010 winter season and today's winter season were very simple: back then there was a charismatic new president pushing for national health insurance and worshipped by the popular media; whereas today there is a conservative president widely vilified in the popular media, and another election is coming in about 7 months.

Political theater. Another example of not allowing any crisis to be wasted, especially during an election cycle.

Totally agree.

[BTDT2]

I think it's appropriate given the circumstances and is a huge political win as far as optics go.

Bernie bros and yang gang must be seething right now over this.

I personally can't wait to get my trump bucks.

"Individuals are eligible for checks up to $1,200 and married couples filing jointly are eligible for checks up to $2,400, with an extra $500 for each child. The higher the income, the less money is received, with a cutoff for individuals earning more than $99,000 and couples with income above $198,000."

Checking an online database containing detailed California public, government employee workers’ salaries, pensions and compensation, many active and retired CA. single filer LEO’s will have a AGI exceeding the $99,0000 cutoff.
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[SOCAleo]

It's based on adjusted gross income. Individual tax payers get a standard deduction of $12,200.00 per tax year automatically. This means that basically an individual can make a total of $111,200.00 per year taking in the consideration with the standard deduction. Also individual tax payers may have a crap load of deductions that also reduce their adjusted gross income (AGI) allowing one to make even more then $111,200.00 and still receive the check.

Meaning not all income earned showing on those public databases are countable as your IRS total income earned, which is a good thing! Also, some income you earn per year does not show on your W2, due to pretax deductions taken out by your employer. So again, those databases reveal a person's total annual income, but it is not the same as what is reported to the IRS and even less once a tax payer reports their standard deductions and if possible their other misc. deductions.

Bottom line is you can check either your 2018 or 2019 federal tax return to see where you will land. On form 1040 line 37 or 1040A line 21 or 1040EZ line 4, will show what your AGI is.

For married couples filing jointly you will need to make a total of $150,000 AGI or less to receive the full checks ($1,200.00 per person). Married couples get an automatic standard deduction of $24,400.00 per year. So a couple who files jointly and makes for example $174,400.00 combined income would still get the full $2,400.00 check. $174,400.00 take away $24,400.00 equals $150,000 AGI allowing you to receive two full $1,200.00 stimulus checks.

As a guess, I would comfortable say that anyone who made as a married couple under like $190,000 total income or less will get the full amount, and an individual who made around $120,000 total income or less will get the full check too. Especially cops in the bay area who own a home. The mortgage interest alone on home ownership in that area will reduce AGI, A LOT.

[9L81]

I think I won't be seeing any of it myself. Lots of fraud will be forthcoming due to it.

[Pogue Mahone]

Per Citizens United shouldn't corporations receive no more than $1,200 (if the even get under the caps for individuals)?

[roadrunner5877]

how are we going to pay for this??

[SOCAleo]

how are we going to pay for this??

We aren't. Your kids and grandchildren will. It's borrowed from the Federal Reserve, who in turn just prints the notes and increases line items in a digital database. Currently the interest rates on Federal Reserve loans in like 0%, so the time to do something like this, is now.

Do I like it? No. Sad but true, our currency is basically paper and is not backed by anything really tangible. The only reason our money is worth anything is because you and I believe it is worth something and in the world market the only way to buy oil is via the US Dollar (petrol dollar). So countries who want to trade/purchase oil has to use the dollar to do so. But that is another topic altogether.

Bottom line, if we ever pay it back, it will be paid by our children and grandchildren's tax dollars, if we still have an economy and people still believe in the value of the US Dollar.

[SOCAleo]

Per Citizens United shouldn't corporations receive no more than $1,200 (if the even get under the caps for individuals)?

I think I understand your question, so I'll try to answer it with my limited knowledge.

The reason for a corporation to receive some stimulus money is because the government is trying to entice small businesses (500 employees or less) to continue to pay their employees during this forced quarantine. Instead of laying them off and causing hordes of non essential employees to file for unemployment. When masses of people file for unemployment it has a domino effect on the economy, which freaks investors out and causes more fear about an impending depression. Also the stimulus for small businesses is to give them money so they can continue to make their mortgage payments and so on.

Big corporations will get stimulus money that are essentially loans. The loans are at such a low interest rate that it makes it lucrative. So the airline industry and cruise industry can take out these large loans to cover the loss in revenue during the quarantine to make their obligated payments and keep their employees.

Individual stimulus checks are not loans, but basically a tax break/refund. Small business stimulus are loans, which will probably be forgiven in the end. Big corporations stimulus are loans that will most likely be paid back.

If I'm way off on your question I apologize.

At least the average Joe is getting something out of this and not just "too big to fail businesses" like the last Obama era stimulus.

[tanksoldier]

Socialism is an economic system in which the government owns or strictly controls the means of production.

Giving you back your own tax money is neither socialist, or capitalist.