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  • Thoughts on this arrest

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kXyyy_1570136715


    locals respond to off duty deputies house for noise complaint. No music heard. On duty asks off duty for is tx. Off duty doesn’t want to give it(doesn’t have to). On duty gets irritated when off duty starts swearing.

    what law is there in AR that says one can’t swear? Also looks like he is on his property and not being very loud?


    thoughts?

  • #2
    Not enough information to make an informed conclusion. I will trust the local authorities to sort this one out without my opinions.

    Comment


    • #3
      More agenda posting.
      Now go home and get your shine box!

      Comment


      • #4
        Here's my two cents after reading the article:

        Bottom line, just cooperate. The time to fight the system is not while being confronted by law enforcement.

        Also, all the officers on scene were probably newbie's, hence the reason the deputy was calling them rookies. I say that because for all the years I've been doing this job I know that if there was no circumstances other than what the article mentioned for being there (noise complaint, but no noise heard) then what is the big deal for having to obtain the deputies phone number?

        Asking for it was fine, but when the deputy told them he wasn't going to give it them, I'd just walk away and say, "OK have a nice night." As a new officer though, I probably would have pushed further for the info because I as an officer told you to give it to me and you need to comply.

        We call that "contempt of cop." It happens sometimes and more often with newer cops on the job. I have been guilty of it myself. Sometimes you have the authority and the right to demand that information but in the long run is it worth it?

        Fight your battles elsewhere. Especially, when it comes to fellow law enforcement.

        So, in my opinion the deputy should have just complied, but he didn't. The cops on the scene should have just decided to fight their battles somewhere else, that fight was not worth it.

        I could be wrong and the article is vague so...…..from the limited info, those are my thoughts.

        Comment


        • PtownVAMike
          PtownVAMike commented
          Editing a comment
          From a civilian's point of view, this is a good response.

      • #5
        Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
        More agenda posting.
        Pffffffffft

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by SOCAleo View Post
          Here's my two cents after reading the article:

          Bottom line, just cooperate. The time to fight the system is not while being confronted by law enforcement.

          Also, all the officers on scene were probably newbie's, hence the reason the deputy was calling them rookies. I say that because for all the years I've been doing this job I know that if there was no circumstances other than what the article mentioned for being there (noise complaint, but no noise heard) then what is the big deal for having to obtain the deputies phone number?

          Asking for it was fine, but when the deputy told them he wasn't going to give it them, I'd just walk away and say, "OK have a nice night." As a new officer though, I probably would have pushed further for the info because I as an officer told you to give it to me and you need to comply.

          We call that "contempt of cop." It happens sometimes and more often with newer cops on the job. I have been guilty of it myself. Sometimes you have the authority and the right to demand that information but in the long run is it worth it?

          Fight your battles elsewhere. Especially, when it comes to fellow law enforcement.

          So, in my opinion the deputy should have just complied, but he didn't. The cops on the scene should have just decided to fight their battles somewhere else, that fight was not worth it.

          I could be wrong and the article is vague so...…..from the limited info, those are my thoughts.
          People dont have to comply with certain things like giving a phone number.

          this video Is pretty clear to me and if I pulled his stunt, even though I have a union Im fairly certain I’d be suspended at the minimum.


          still inquiring on what law there is in Arkansas that says someone can’t swear on their own property


          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by hold the air View Post

            People dont have to comply with certain things like giving a phone number.

            this video Is pretty clear to me and if I pulled his stunt, even though I have a union Im fairly certain I’d be suspended at the minimum.


            still inquiring on what law there is in Arkansas that says someone can’t swear on their own property

            No doubt there were mistakes made by the deputy but how in the hell can you arrest someone on his own property for cursing. He wasn’t screaming. There was no underlying offense that should have made things escalate to this level. Ideally the deputy should have just gone inside and told the police officer to F-off and get off his property. Apparently one can be arrested for offending an officer on his own property.

            A smart move for the deputy would have been to cooperate with the arrest and then seek legal recourse later. I can’t see how this officer/city won’t be facing a civil lawsuit in the near future.
            “Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.” - Steven Wright

            US Army MP (95B) 1992-1997
            DOJ Agent/ DHS Officer 1997 to Present

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Exbpa340 View Post

              No doubt there were mistakes made by the deputy but how in the hell can you arrest someone on his own property for cursing. He wasn’t screaming. There was no underlying offense that should have made things escalate to this level. Ideally the deputy should have just gone inside and told the police officer to F-off and get off his property. Apparently one can be arrested for offending an officer on his own property.

              A smart move for the deputy would have been to cooperate with the arrest and then seek legal recourse later. I can’t see how this officer/city won’t be facing a civil lawsuit in the near future.
              Just found another article that stated he was charged with Public Intoxication, Disorderly Conduct and Resisting arrest.

              Public Intoxication (complete BS) especially since he was on private property. Just located this tidbit on Arkansas law - The tailgate of a pickup truck which was parked on the side yard of a private residence was not a public place. Weaver v. State, 1996 So, if you’re on private property where you have a right to be, you’re not in public.

              Disorderly Conduct (again BS). He was on private property and from what the officers observed was not disrupting the public nor was he in a public place. He ****ed off the cop.

              Resisting Arrest. He should have complied with the unlawful/illegal arrest and then rectified this at a later date.


              i am not a local LEO and haven’t dealt with Domestic (did have some limited experience as an MP) issues for many years but can’t see how this guy’s behavior on his own property rose to the level of justifying an arrest.
              “Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.” - Steven Wright

              US Army MP (95B) 1992-1997
              DOJ Agent/ DHS Officer 1997 to Present

              Comment


              • #9
                In public, private property or not, means they are IN PUBLIC.

                Learn the law before you post.
                Now go home and get your shine box!

                Comment


                • Exbpa340
                  Exbpa340 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Hey wise arse... just look up the law in Arkansas.. I posted an actual court case. Cannot be arrested for public intoxication on private property.

                  You’re always a joy to read/interact. Always a pompous arse.

                • Exbpa340
                  Exbpa340 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Look up Weaver v. State, 1996....learn the law before you post.

              • #10
                In my state you cannot resist an arrest, even if it is an unlawful one; that's what court is for.

                He could have had a lucrative early retirement instead he got fired.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
                  In public, private property or not, means they are IN PUBLIC.

                  Learn the law before you post.
                  Who was alarmed and disturbed for a disorderly conduct can charge?

                  did you now AR’s public intoxication law? It says public place. Someone’s driveway is hardly public.

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    There's really not enough info to form an opinion on the incident in its entirety. That being said, here are a few thoughts:

                    1) The deputy should have done himself a favor and listened to his wife.

                    2) The profanities could warrant a disorderly charge since (according to the officer) there were children in close proximity and presumably within earshot.

                    3) Things escalated after the deputy told the officers, "you might want to tell your sergeant to go Code 3!" The officers may have perceived this as a threat of physical violence, and at that point decided to arrest the deputy. FWIW, the deputy's own wife is visibly alarmed by that statement.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by hold the air View Post

                      People dont have to comply with certain things like giving a phone number.

                      this video Is pretty clear to me and if I pulled his stunt, even though I have a union Im fairly certain I’d be suspended at the minimum.


                      still inquiring on what law there is in Arkansas that says someone can’t swear on their own property

                      Yea people don't have to comply, but that is when things can get out of hand. Like I said in my original post, "
                      Bottom line, just cooperate. The time to fight the system is not while being confronted by law enforcement."

                      I agree that you would at a minimum be suspended and or fired. Remember this deputy ended up fighting with the police, he should be fired, bottom line. Even if somehow the deputy was in the right. Again, fight the system in court not while on scene.

                      Not In My Town, mentioned that it was reported children were present during the profanity rant so........it looks like Arkansas has a law for that.

                      When you are drunk the only safe place you can be is, is inside your private residence. So being drunk in public covers your private property too, there is case law on that. Same as a DUI, you can get a duece charge while driving around on your private property.

                      I did not watch the video, but if the officers asked the deputy to step outside to speak with them and then arrested him for being drunk in public that could be an issue. Even knocking on the deputy's door and the deputy stepped out, could also be an issue with arresting him for being drunk in public. Not as much as if the officers asked him to step out, but it could potentially be an issue.

                      Comment


                      • Exbpa340
                        Exbpa340 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Look up Weaver v. State, 1996. It’s an Arkansas case. Drinking on your own property is not considered “public”.

                    • #14
                      Here's how I would have handled this call:

                      Respond to the address for what was reported as a noise complaint. Get to the location and hear no noise. Realize that a lot of times it takes me a while to get to a call and the initial issue may have resolved itself by the time I arrived. With that in mind, I would still knock on the door and contact the resident just so I can let them know a complaint had been made against them. Sometimes this helps stop repeat offenses later. My goal is to not have to respond to the same address again for the same complaint.

                      Knock on the door and make contact. Tell the deputy why I was there and respectfully ask him to make sure it don't happen again. Then I would leave.

                      Now with that being said, some departments require, or strongly encourage their officers to obtain those in whom they contact in the field, all of their identifying information. If that was the case, I would then ask the subject their name and get a full "FI/Horsepower" meaning their name/address/date of birth/DL # and phone number etc. etc.

                      If the deputy then says, F off, or why do you need that. I would calmly explain to him that my department requires it. If he still tells me to F off again, I would calmly state, "OK, have a nice night." End of call. Now, if my Sgt. comes to me later and asks why I failed to comply with department policy on obtaining the subject's FI. I would explain to him/her why, and I'm guessing once I mention that it was another fellow LEO, it would be squashed right then and there.

                      But, If the Sgt. then tells me I need to obtain it, then I would contact the deputy's department, since he notified me that he was a deputy with such and such county. I would obtain the deputy's name and what not from the dispatcher at his department. I would write that all down and turn it in to the Sgt.

                      Done.

                      Again, fight your battles elsewhere, I'd rather put the amount of effort that the officers put into this go nowhere call to fighting against the neighborhood thug.

                      Now, if there are civilians reading this, please don't get the wrong impression that you can just go around and fail to comply because what you had just done was in your opinion a big nothing burger. This is a specific scenario and in this scenario when the officers arrived at the location they did not witness any violation of the law. Whether it be an infraction or a misdemeanor an officer must witness it to make an arrest (with very few exceptions of course). The only way a person can be cited or arrested for a violation that was not committed in the officer's presence, is if a witness is willing to make a citizen's arrest, so...…..

                      Again, bottom line. Comply always when being confronted by law enforcement, if something was done wrong in your opinion fight it in court, not at the scene.

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        I don't know AR's laws but after watching the video (more like listening to it) it looks like their disorderly conduct laws are similar to ours.

                        The guy didn't get arrested for failing to give his phone number! The profanity around the children and or fighting words, as in our disorderly conduct charge, is what got him arrested. Our disorderly conduct also covers profanity around children BTW.

                        The guy appears to be standing outside when the officer approached him. The profanity is loud enough that any one standing nearby could easily hear it. I could win these charges, in any court any day of the week here! And I have had some similar to this one.

                        I worked for a department that wanted reports on everything. Founded or unfounded! I usually didn't have problems getting the info from the subjects but I have had some refuse. But they usually didn't use language, like the former deputy did and no body went to jail.

                        I don't like the idea of arresting another law enforcement officer. But in a case like this I would have arrested the off duty deputy. Respect works both ways!

                        Just my opinion based on my state's laws.








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