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Widow-Maker's Heart Attacks

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  • Widow-Maker's Heart Attacks

    I'm NOT a paramedic, NOT in medicine. I am CPR trained (and AED for what its worth), but this isn't about me. Have you heard of an AED? Automatic External Defibrillator?

    The reason I bring this up is for two reasons. I've read through some of the O.com front page stuff and noticed two officers seemingly between 30 - 50 who have collapsed recently, I hope their family's have support and are picking up the pieces during the shock and grieving process. I do NOT know much about the cases in particular, but it reminds me of someone I know. A friend of the family (he was 42 at the time, and one of the top all time basketball players in the state) suffered through a Widow-maker's heart attack and survived it. The chances are really slim, so he was blessed to have medical attention right away, so not sure if an AED would have saved him, or not. IMO, the nice thing about an AED is the portability.

    There are different brands of AED's this is just a quick video:



    I may be way out there with this, but if it helps great if it doesn't have a great day!
    Last edited by that's my hand; 02-02-2015, 09:57 AM. Reason: added info

  • #2
    At some place in time nearly all police officers have been trained in CPR----------many of them re-cert as required.

    Most CPR classes now include the AED training------------------------

    AED's CAN make a big difference

    MANY department issue them to patrol officers regularly


    We just had a FF in Iowa die of a heart attack shortly after being released from a large fier-----he is considered an LODD
    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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    • #3
      Is there anyone who hasn't heard of an AED? As noted above, AED is part of our CPR training.

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      • #4
        Our patrol folks carry one in their vehicles, checking in and out at roll call, .and they are used more often than you might think.
        It's a very good program.
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        In 2017, the sales of my LEO related decals allowed me to donate over $350. to LE/ Military related charities... THANK YOU!!! Check them out HERE...

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        • #5
          An AED will do nothing to prevent or reverse a heart attack (acute myocardial infarction), which is not at all the same thing as cardiac arrest (although the former is one possible cause of the latter).

          An AMI is caused by lack of blood flow to some part of the cardiac muscle, which then dies. Cardiac arrest is the cessation of contraction in the chambers of the heart, which can have a wide variety of acute or chronic causes. Depending on the electrophysiological symptoms of the person in cardiac arrest, an AED may be able to restore normal sinus rhythm, but again, cardiac arrest has many etiologies, so it may not.

          Emergency treatment for an AMI would include some combination of aspirin, nitroglycerin, and oxygen.
          Originally posted by Michigan
          Now that you mention it, who are you?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SamRudolph View Post
            An AED will do nothing to prevent or reverse a heart attack (acute myocardial infarction), which is not at all the same thing as cardiac arrest (although the former is one possible cause of the latter).

            An AMI is caused by lack of blood flow to some part of the cardiac muscle, which then dies. Cardiac arrest is the cessation of contraction in the chambers of the heart, which can have a wide variety of acute or chronic causes. Depending on the electrophysiological symptoms of the person in cardiac arrest, an AED may be able to restore normal sinus rhythm, but again, cardiac arrest has many etiologies, so it may not.

            Emergency treatment for an AMI would include some combination of aspirin, nitroglycerin, and oxygen.
            HOWEVER the AMI is very often the CAUSE of the cardiac arrest.

            The proper application of the AED when indicated will MANY TIMES reverse the cardiac arrest (which actually is often is NOT ARREST but ventricular fibrillation) , restart the correct heart rhythm and help resuscitate the victim.

            True cardiac arrest (asystole ) is absence electrical activity in the heart. Asystole would not trigger the AED.
            Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

            My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
              HOWEVER the AMI is very often the CAUSE of the cardiac arrest.

              The proper application of the AED when indicated will MANY TIMES reverse the cardiac arrest (which actually is often is NOT ARREST but ventricular fibrillation) , restart the correct heart rhythm and help resuscitate the victim.

              True cardiac arrest (asystole ) is absence electrical activity in the heart. Asystole would not trigger the AED.
              Yep. Most heart attack patients we will encounter are in V fib, which is exactly what the AED is designed for. The average officer is not trained to administer nitro or O2.

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              • #8
                Of course, there's always the "Don't worry, pal- EMS is on the way" line to make them feel better.....
                SUPPORT COP RUN BUSINESSES!!
                SUPPORT LEO BUSINESSES!



                In 2017, the sales of my LEO related decals allowed me to donate over $350. to LE/ Military related charities... THANK YOU!!! Check them out HERE...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by just joe View Post
                  Yep. Most heart attack patients we will encounter are in V fib, which is exactly what the AED is designed for. The average officer is not trained to administer nitro or O2.
                  And of course because of the "automatic" part of the AED, it never hurts to try, since only ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia will trigger a defib shock.

                  My only point is that an AED will not treat a heart attack, only certain types of common ventricular arrhythmias. An AMI can often cause these arrhythmias, but if some part of the myocardium is dead, an AED will not change that fact.

                  EDIT: Might also note that having a heart attack is not always fatal, and sometimes is not even actually noticeable. It all depends on the location of the infarct and how much of the heart it affects.
                  Last edited by SamRudolph; 02-03-2015, 10:08 AM.
                  Originally posted by Michigan
                  Now that you mention it, who are you?

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                  • #10
                    Damn interesting thready...I have no real practical experience in AED but am familiar with it in the course of writing two 12 Hr. courses entitled Maintenance and repair of bio-medical equipment. (Book used twas Joseph J. Carr / John M. Brown 4th edition.

                    Would it not be semi-accurate to state that the ideal initial firing of a pacemaker would be at the upward slope of the R within, the QRS complex? Just wondering cuz I was looking back at my notes....

                    Some moons ago I became friends with the chair of the veterinarian dept of a local university here. I inquired just for fun what were the values in volts of the polarized and depolarized of the human skin cell...Dr. John McWhither took a stab at it..I forgot his answer but I do remember it was a tad off..I believe it is -70mV to a depolarized +20 mV..Why I remember don't ask thee, because I'm a freak piece of space debris.

                    Lastly, I recalled oddly enough that the duration of the ECG features is relatively constant over a wide range of heart rates. IE, Appx 600 milliseconds between atrial contraction and cellular repolarization of the heart cells.

                    O.K. Boys and girls, thanks fer' ya time, back on track here..




                    P.S.

                    If that is you in that Video, that's my hand, will you marry me????
                    Originally posted by mookster
                    Sully, usually I hafta glance over your posts cuz my brain would have issues with the imagery you portray, however with that one I get it. I agree one hundred percent with ya.
                    Originally posted by CityCopDC
                    I swear to god you are not human. I know a rogue VI when I see one.
                    Originally posted by OfficerDotCom
                    I think no one is probably happier than Sully and I that we ARE NOT the same person.(seriously thanking God for that one).
                    -Frank




                    Old Physicists neva' die, they just hop on a horsey and fly away inta' an infinitely massive black ho ...

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                    • #11
                      Sully-
                      As odd is this may sound, your response was the most lucid post I have seen from you in years.
                      How is sobriety working out for ya?
                      SUPPORT COP RUN BUSINESSES!!
                      SUPPORT LEO BUSINESSES!



                      In 2017, the sales of my LEO related decals allowed me to donate over $350. to LE/ Military related charities... THANK YOU!!! Check them out HERE...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Iowa has it right.

                        An AED will help with arrhythmias (atrial fib/flutter or ventricular fib/flutter) when the person is down and out. Asystole or complete stoppage of the heart needs CPR. If a heart rate comes back and then goes into fib/flutter, the AED could be used then.

                        If you can keep the circulation going with CPR and/or the AED brings back a usable rhythm then the person may have a chance of survival.
                        Unfortunately, only less than 10 % of people brought back by in the field by CPR for cardiac arrest make it.
                        Originally posted by JasperST
                        "The fail is strong with this one."


                        Originally posted by mdrep
                        It's not sporting old chap. Like shooting fish in a barrel. You may only take a shot at a poser or troll if they are running and you are properly licensed.

                        What do you think we are, a bunch of barbarians?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by swat_op506 View Post
                          Sully-
                          As odd is this may sound, your response was the most lucid post I have seen from you in years.
                          How is sobriety working out for ya?

                          I was going to say that I understand what he is saying better when he babbles on.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by asullivan View Post
                            P.S.

                            If that is you in that Video, that's my hand, will you marry me????
                            Fortunately my state has not adopted the same sex marriage thingy ... but yeah, love the posts but I'm so straight I eat hotdogs from the center.

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