Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Women's Problems In Law Enforcment

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Defender77
    replied
    My first impression after reading the original post, was he's trying to sell his book.

    Leave a comment:


  • towncop
    replied
    Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
    No, Sir, don't think y'all are oblivious at all. I think there is a difference in seeing and understanding it as a man and understanding it as a woman. We aren't the same by any stretch of the imagination.

    I offer this as an example: In the promotion boards to Sgt, a female Detective was selected (not me). She was the only female applicant against four men. She had the same time in as three of them, a masters (only one that had one), she scored higher on the oral board AND the written test. The others spent all their time on the road, she spent six on the road, three in CID.

    You should have HEARD the sly, evil-spirited comments. She phuked her way to the top, she got the job on the knees, she did this, she did that, she got the job because she was a woman...blah blah blah. Most of us have heard this routine when some women get promoted in an agency...hell, it's said here when some discussions come up. It might be off-the-cuff and lighthearted to the men that hear it. You might think it's wrong. You might think its right and she really did sleep her way to the top. Most men that have been in this job for awhile has a horror story about a female Officer that sued or screwed her way to the top. It's talked about very flippantly...but do you KNOW what its like if you're that woman they're talking about? You can't begin to understand the internal struggle, the emotional response, the mental game...the unfairness of it...the aggravation...the discrimination.
    Then perhaps those women that actually DO and HAVE slept their way to the top or that promotion owe those of you who haven't a big apology.

    Leave a comment:


  • towncop
    replied
    Originally posted by ssMarilyn View Post
    I don't know if it's a plug or not, only the poster knows that. I think we can be a little nicer....
    +1,000......

    Leave a comment:


  • threatZERO
    replied
    I'll just leave this right there.....




    Code:
    Tone of story   - suspenseful (sophisticated fear)
    Time/era of story: - 1980's-1999
    Kid or adult book? - Adult or Young Adult Book
    Crime Thriller Yes
    General Crime (including known murderer) Yes
    Who's the criminal enemy here? - police gone bad
    
    Main Character
    Gender - Male
    Profession/status: - police/lawman
    [B][Size=7]Has special powers? Yes[/Size][/B]
    Eccentric/Mental: Yes
    Is this an ordinary person caught up in events? Yes
    How much violence does he/she use? - a little
    Ethnicity/Race - White/American
    How sensitive is this character? - middling sensitive to others' feelings
    Sense of humor - Strong but gentle sense of humor
    Physique - very athletic

    Leave a comment:


  • Jenners
    replied
    Originally posted by Steve354
    Because they took the time to listen and to Flowers up on matters or to get back in touch with me.
    Interesting Freudian slip...

    Leave a comment:


  • SkepticAlways
    replied
    Originally posted by Jenners View Post
    But, when it comes time to partner up, I have two kinds of partner (well, three I guess): those who treat me the same as a guy and I get righteously clobbered, those who fall too easy and do NOTHING to help me train, and those who won't even touch me/get close to me/etc.
    You don't really believe this traning phenomenon is unique to females? In my experience, with guys, or girls, you're gonna get this variation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jenners
    replied
    I just finished four hours of DT training an hour ago. I'm not a large girl, and I take that into account and adjust in my training. They are drilling elbows to the head, I'm drilling elbows to the body. No one really minds. But, when it comes time to partner up, I have two kinds of partner (well, three I guess): those who treat me the same as a guy and I get righteously clobbered, those who fall too easy and do NOTHING to help me train, and those who won't even touch me/get close to me/etc. There's some difference, but I do my job just like anyone else.

    Unlike Smurfette however, I don't have kids. I live alone in my house with Jake the Dog, so there's no battle between who pays bills/cooks/launders. I don't come across as a "ball-buster" to use her phrase. I'm pretty plucky and friendly, because you catch more flies with honey. I'm not here to force my way into the boy's treehouse. I'm lucky in that my squad is supportive and super nice. I back them, they back me, and there's no bull sh1t.

    It's not the same for all women in LE. I know that. But I don't think we need to be a. sexy cops (I HATE that new cop show) or b. ball-breaking macho jockettes. I'm not here to be pretty or prove something. I'm here because I want to be and I'm good at my job.

    Leave a comment:


  • Smurfette_76
    replied
    Originally posted by stevenb View Post
    Great response! Now we're talking about some of the struggles you and other women have had to deal with. You're right...I certainly don't KNOW exactly what it's like being a woman cop, but I can see and hear what happens. Does not being a woman in LE prevent me from writing about it? If that was the criteria for all writers (that they had to experience an issue before they could write about it) then 90% of all writers wouldn't write.
    I went into the sheriff's department right after getting out of the army in 1965. At that time women were not trained as well as men cops because they weren't allowed to be in a patrol assignment. In patrol stations we had "matrons" and they were "semi" deputies that just handled female arrestees. Finally, as time went by a trial case was conducted with 2 or 3 female deputies in patrol. This eventually led to women being assigned to regular patrol, but it took years. I lived through the huge changes that took place on the sheriff's department and saw the changes that occurred on other departments as well. Some of the changes were good, but in some instances I saw some of the lady cops losing their femininity because they tried to be too much like some of the macho cops. I think they did this to "fit in".
    Smurfette, what's it like now? Do you think most of the walls have been taken down?
    Steve,

    For the point of an interview paper I was assigned, I conducted a small poll (if you will) in the squad section of this internet forum. It was completely informal, but it addressed this very topic. There have actually been serveral threads in the past. If you'd like to read what some responded to me, then you can click on my name and go to "threads started by..." and it will come up. It was entitled something about needing help. The majority of the responses came in PM because some didn't want to discuss it on an open forum. I cannot send those to you though because they aren't mine to do that with.

    I said that to say this. There is a hell of a long way to go. It does look like its getting better. There are several new female officers here that said they are treated like one of the guys and they see no discrimination. I have two thoughts about that: 1) they are interacting with the new generations w/o the hangups about "us" being here or 2) they aren't a "threat" yet and they'll see the truth when they get in positions to promote.

    Now, see, I often come across as a ball buster and yes, I realize that. It is what it is. I'm difficult to take in real life too sometimes. I know how forceful I am, I know how assertive (even aggressive) I am. However, I'm not ashamed of it. It was hard for me (and a life lesson) to learn to stop apologizing and minimalizing my accomplishments to those around me...most likely the influence of a very strong southern upbringing. I can't begin to tell you those struggles between the job and the rearing. I don't even know that I can articulate that type of struggle....being a female Officer in a good ole boys society that very much dominates this area?

    I digress...

    I think the majority of men I work with are fair, are dedicated and have NO problem with women in LE. You were California, right? During the very beginning and during affirmative action and all that right? I can't imagine what it would be like to be a female officer then and there. Truly. No clue.

    Have things changed? Eh. I think those that opposed and were more vocal have been made to conform or to STFU. Here's the double edged sword...no one can make them change their minds (Duh, right) so they are still against us, they just aren't AS vocal and the downside...what am I going to do? Tell on them? ROFL, no, you don't. We want to be ACCEPTED and quite frankly left alone...so does it make sense to bring attention to the peddy BS that happens? No, it doesn't. The problem is those small things add up...enter the perverbial "rock and hard place." Many of us just put our heads down, grow a real thick skin and KNOW that in the end we're kicking your *** and you never realized it [not you or me personally].

    Here's the part that is probably not going to be well received by some. Again, it's my opinion.

    Women that aren't going to make it in this job don't stick around long. The women I have been exposed to and worked around in this job run circles around the men. The majority of us are or were single mothers. The majority of us have high levels of education. The majority are involved in community issues, church, etc. Now, before you men get upset with me, try to hear me out. We had this discussion in shift brief and a very good friend of mine debated this VERY passionately with me. He was upset over what he perceived as my generalization. He is educated. He has promoted. He is involved in community and church and all that. He wanted to know why I thought this was harder on US (women) than THEM (men). So I asked him this...who runs your house? Who takes care of the house? Who takes care of the children? What do you do when you get home? I think he began to understand my point. When he goes home he is done with work. When I go home, I just started my first job (being a Detective is my second job) and the majority of the women that I have worked with in my career are the same way. Is that a generalization? NO, not in MY experience and not in my area. I am Southern and in my upbringing and in my community women run the house, women have the majority of the child rearing responsibilities. It just is.
    Last edited by Smurfette_76; 10-21-2009, 01:44 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BaldOldWhiteGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
    In the promotion boards to Sgt, a female Detective was selected. She scored higher on the oral board...
    What a sexist comment!

    Leave a comment:


  • Smurfette_76
    replied
    No, Sir, don't think y'all are oblivious at all. I think there is a difference in seeing and understanding it as a man and understanding it as a woman. We aren't the same by any stretch of the imagination.

    I offer this as an example: In the promotion boards to Sgt, a female Detective was selected (not me). She was the only female applicant against four men. She had the same time in as three of them, a masters (only one that had one), she scored higher on the oral board AND the written test. The others spent all their time on the road, she spent six on the road, three in CID.

    You should have HEARD the sly, evil-spirited comments. She slept her way to the top, she got the job on the knees, she did this, she did that, she got the job because she was a woman...blah blah blah. Most of us have heard this routine when some women get promoted in an agency...hell, it's said here when some discussions come up. It might be off-the-cuff and lighthearted to the men that hear it. You might think it's wrong. You might think its right and she really did sleep her way to the top. Most men that have been in this job for awhile has a horror story about a female Officer that sued or screwed her way to the top. It's talked about very flippantly...but do you KNOW what its like if you're that woman they're talking about? You can't begin to understand the internal struggle, the emotional response, the mental game...the unfairness of it...the aggravation...the discrimination.

    Leave a comment:


  • stevenb
    replied
    Great Response!

    Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
    Steven,

    If you have a wife that is a Deputy then thanks for supporting her, you should also be familiar with women who are very blunt...that doesn't make me angry. I don't know you, you don't possess that power over me. I am blunt and concise, perhaps a throwback from the job I do everyday. I'm not afforded the opportunity to mince words. Ironic, men do it and it's glossed over it, but let a woman be as assertive as a man and she's a b*tch. Case in point...I'm a "jerk" or "mean" or "angry" for typing my opinion. So in real life, do you take offense if someone says to you, "How do you, a man, write a book about the experience of women in LE?"

    I still maintain that you can't "get it." Take that as being angry if you'd like, the point is that you can talk about it from your point of view but your point of view is NEVER as a woman doing this job. Your wife, your former command or Officers can TELL YOU, but that doesn't mean you truly "get it." You have no idea what this job is like as a woman...why you want to take that as me busting on you, I don't know. *I* have no idea what its like to do this job as a man. Those are facts.

    You can hear her, you could sympathize, you could talk about it with her, commiserate even, but you cannot truly KNOW this job from our point of view unless you've lived it.

    I don't understand racial discrimination from the POV of a white woman. Haven't lived it, don't really KNOW what its like. I didn't experience gender discrimination like my mother and my grandmother. I hear their stories and it blows my mind; then I look at the blatant issues in LE and I realize that its not that hard to believe the things I'm told. I can sympathize with the equality struggles my mother had, but I cannot fully understand them. My son is autistic. I can support him through this and do everything short of moving the world for him, but I do NOT KNOW what this world is like from HIS point of view. And believe me, I say that living every single day fighting right alongside him. I was never a Marine. I am the granddaughter of one, child of one, wife of one, best friend of one and the majority of my partners are former Marines...does that mean I "get it?" Hell, no! My girlfriend tells me hysterical stories about boot camp and the Corps (and she can tell a story like no other, believe me) but I cannot understand it from her point of view. I wouldn't DARE write a book about how the Marine Corps has changed for women...good Lord, that's insulting.

    So. I hope I've done a better job of explaining MY point of view. That's all it is. MY point of view.
    Great response! Now we're talking about some of the struggles you and other women have had to deal with. You're right...I certainly don't KNOW exactly what it's like being a woman cop, but I can see and hear what happens. Does not being a woman in LE prevent me from writing about it? If that was the criteria for all writers (that they had to experience an issue before they could write about it) then 90% of all writers wouldn't write.
    I went into the sheriff's department right after getting out of the army in 1965. At that time women were not trained as well as men cops because they weren't allowed to be in a patrol assignment. In patrol stations we had "matrons" and they were "semi" deputies that just handled female arrestees. Finally, as time went by a trial case was conducted with 2 or 3 female deputies in patrol. This eventually led to women being assigned to regular patrol, but it took years. I lived through the huge changes that took place on the sheriff's department and saw the changes that occurred on other departments as well. Some of the changes were good, but in some instances I saw some of the lady cops losing their femininity because they tried to be too much like some of the macho cops. I think they did this to "fit in".
    Smurfette, what's it like now? Do you think most of the walls have been taken down?

    Leave a comment:


  • JPSO Recruit
    replied
    Smurfette has a very good point, we as guys will never fully comprehend what women go through in regards to problems in law enforcement. Though I would just like to add it doesn't mean we are oblivious to what's going on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Smurfette_76
    replied
    Steven,

    If you have a wife that is a Deputy then thanks for supporting her, you should also be familiar with women who are very blunt...that doesn't make me angry. I don't know you, you don't possess that power over me. I am blunt and concise, perhaps a throwback from the job I do everyday. I'm not afforded the opportunity to mince words. Ironic, men do it and it's glossed over it, but let a woman be as assertive as a man and she's a b*tch. Case in point...I'm a "jerk" or "mean" or "angry" for typing my opinion. So in real life, do you take offense if someone says to you, "How do you, a man, write a book about the experience of women in LE?"

    I still maintain that you can't "get it." Take that as being angry if you'd like, the point is that you can talk about it from your point of view but your point of view is NEVER as a woman doing this job. Your wife, your former command or Officers can TELL YOU, but that doesn't mean you truly "get it." You have no idea what this job is like as a woman...why you want to take that as me busting on you, I don't know. *I* have no idea what its like to do this job as a man. Those are facts.

    You can hear her, you could sympathize, you could talk about it with her, commiserate even, but you cannot truly KNOW this job from our point of view unless you've lived it.

    I don't understand racial discrimination from the POV of a white woman. Haven't lived it, don't really KNOW what its like. I didn't experience gender discrimination like my mother and my grandmother. I hear their stories and it blows my mind; then I look at the blatant issues in LE and I realize that its not that hard to believe the things I'm told. I can sympathize with the equality struggles my mother had, but I cannot fully understand them. My son is autistic. I can support him through this and do everything short of moving the world for him, but I do NOT KNOW what this world is like from HIS point of view. And believe me, I say that living every single day fighting right alongside him. I was never a Marine. I am the granddaughter of one, child of one, wife of one, best friend of one and the majority of my partners are former Marines...does that mean I "get it?" Hell, no! My girlfriend tells me hysterical stories about boot camp and the Corps (and she can tell a story like no other, believe me) but I cannot understand it from her point of view. I wouldn't DARE write a book about how the Marine Corps has changed for women...good Lord, that's insulting.

    So. I hope I've done a better job of explaining MY point of view. That's all it is. MY point of view.

    Leave a comment:


  • stevenb
    replied
    Angry Smurfette

    Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
    How does mentioning your book show that this career has changed for women over the last 40 years? It doesn't. You plugged it, plain and simple. Do you know that you come across as patronizing when you dare to say that you know what its like because you worked alongside us? Perhaps its just me, but...I have no use for that. It's like someone giving you parenting advice...then you find out they don't have children.
    Smurfette, you sound a little angry! One thing I forgot to mention is my wife was a deputy sheriff too during those days and I got to listen to all her stories about being passed over for promotion because she didn't have "patrol" experience and all the other crap she had to put up with. This was when very few women were being given the chance to go to a patrol station. My wife had to retire on a medical retirement because of injuries she received on duty. So, Smurfette, please don't tell me I have NO IDEA of what you, as a woman, are going through.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbr600_kitty
    replied
    Eh, didnt really see it as a plug....but I guess we'll find out if the OP comes back and posts more.....lol.

    Leave a comment:

MR300x250 Tablet

Collapse

What's Going On

Collapse

There are currently 4947 users online. 320 members and 4627 guests.

Most users ever online was 158,966 at 04:57 AM on 01-16-2021.

Welcome Ad

Collapse
Working...
X