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  • Appealing Academy Dismissal

    I was recently dismissed from the Contra Costa SO academy for failing a scenario test. After talking to a few of my cop buddies, they were suggesting that I appeal the decision because my friends didn't agree that the mistakes I made were severe enough to fail the test. Is it worth appealing and what good does appealing do? I would assume they would still make me re-do the entire academy all over again, even if the appeal goes in my favor. So bummed out because I scored so well on all my other tests (all my exam scores were 90-100%) and I only had 2 weeks left of the academy.

  • #2
    So you’re “friends” are all Academy Instructors who understand and follow POST standards..? Thought not. If you don’t meet the POST standards, you don’t pass.

    Try again.

    Comment


    • David916
      David916 commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree. I had no intentions on appealing in the first place until my friends had suggested it.

  • #3
    Originally posted by David916 View Post
    I was recently dismissed from the Contra Costa SO academy for failing a scenario test. After talking to a few of my cop buddies, they were suggesting that I appeal the decision because my friends didn't agree that the mistakes I made were severe enough to fail the test. Is it worth appealing and what good does appealing do? I would assume they would still make me re-do the entire academy all over again, even if the appeal goes in my favor. So bummed out because I scored so well on all my other tests (all my exam scores were 90-100%) and I only had 2 weeks left of the academy.
    You can only share the information that you feel comfortable with. So without knowing if you had past "fails" at the same scenario, or if there were other factors in your dismissal other than just your exam scores,only you know.

    Based on what you have said, well yeah, appeal it.

    What do you have to lose ?
    John 15:13 - Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

    Comment


    • #4
      So this one scenario failure totally came out of nowhere, with only two weeks left before graduation?

      Comment


      • emtguy89
        emtguy89 commented
        Editing a comment
        My state has a pass/fail UOF exercise a day or two before graduation. I've seen people fail it.

      • David916
        David916 commented
        Editing a comment
        Week 23 and 24 are scheduled for scenario testings so yes people can fail out two weeks prior to graduation.

    • #5
      A few cadets in my academy failed scenarios, they were remediated and given several attempts to pass again, usually a day or two apart. I don't remember it being an issue.

      If you were cut two weeks before graduating, there had to be something else going on. Or your particular scenario failure was so
      egregious that it would be a liability or officer safety concern to let you continue. No agency or academy likes to send people home after putting in 6 months of work.

      Go ahead and appeal, but your cop buddies word doesn't mean s*** for whoever makes the decision. Either way you're gonna have to do the whole academy over from scratch.

      Comment


      • David916
        David916 commented
        Editing a comment
        Negative, nothing else going on. All my academy and peer evaluations were solid. I failed my initial and my remediation on the "crimes in progress" scenario test. I agree that I would have to redo the whole academy again and that's why I had no intentions on appealing in the first place. Just wanted if it was even worth doing it.

      • emtguy89
        emtguy89 commented
        Editing a comment
        Hol up. You said you have no intentions of appealing, but wanted to know if it was even worth doing??? That doesn't make any sense...

      • David916
        David916 commented
        Editing a comment
        I originally had no intentions on appealing it until my friends suggested that I do it. Now I'm wondering if it's worth doing it.

      • emtguy89
        emtguy89 commented
        Editing a comment
        Appeals are mainly for procedural errors or due process violations. Unless this means you're statutorily prohibited from going back, maybe you shouldn't appeal it, just accept that you messed up and move on, try again in a few years. Maybe move to a state that's not absolutely insane and try policing there.

    • #6
      Originally posted by clof2001 View Post
      No agency or academy likes to send people home after putting in 6 months of work.
      And, presumably, 6 months of pay (or at least the cost of the academy enrollment).
      "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
      -Friedrich Nietzsche

      Comment


      • emtguy89
        emtguy89 commented
        Editing a comment
        I've known sponsored cadets to complete the majority of the academy, fail something, get fired, then go back on their own and complete whatever block of instruction they had to retake, then get hired at another agency. If they completed the academy the first time around, they'd have a two year contract...but this way, they ended up free agents with no contract, and 90% of the academy paid for (including salary).

      • Bing_Oh
        Bing_Oh commented
        Editing a comment
        Odd setup. On the rare occurrence that my department sends someone through the academy, they're required to sign a contract that says that failing the academy or not completing 2 years after the academy means they have to pay the department for the full cost of the academy.

      • emtguy89
        emtguy89 commented
        Editing a comment
        Ours is codified into state law, two years from the date of graduation as a sponsored cadet, and technically the new employer is responsible, not the officer. Well-intended but probably not thought out when it was written. It also only covers intrastate laterals. If you go to private sector employment, law enforcement in another state, or the federal government, you owe nothing.

        Our academy's instruction blocks aren't necessarily in the same order every time...firearms, EVOC, first aid, etc get moved around a lot, or the class splits and does different high-liabilities with smaller groups. Recycles tend to only have to show up a couple days a week, or a week here and there, and they either work in the office at their agencies, sit at home if they're not sponsored, or (gasp) work the road/jail in between classes.

    • #7
      I failed my initial and remediation test for officer safety issues.

      During my initial "crimes in progress" test, dispatch advised they received an open 911 call and no further details were provided. I pull up to the scene, I went up to my victim (role player) to get information to put out a BOLO, then I cleared the building, and then I requested additional units to set up a perimeter. Evaluator did not like the order that I did things and said I didn't ask for enough resources. Evaluator said that I should've immediately set up a perimeter, cleared the building, and then do a BOLO. Additionally, they wanted me to ask for more resources (k9, drone, helicopter, etc.).

      On my remediation test, I was dispatched to a burglary alarm and the RP/owner states the suspect may be inside. I pull up to the side of the building, requested for additional units to set up a perimeter, notified dispatch that I was making entry to the building, saw the suspected before entering the building, got behind my patrol vehicle for cover, called the suspect out and had him walk backwards to my patrol vehicle, cuffed him, proceeded to clear the building, Mirandized the suspect, interrogated the suspected, and then arrested suspect. Evaluator did not like my approach to the scene. They wanted me to park in front of the building (instead of parking on the side). The reason behind this is because had I parked in front of the building, I would have immediately saw the suspect inside the building and I could've used my PA to call suspect out, while using my patrol vehicle as cover. Also, they didn't like that I didn't have cover when I cuffed the suspect. I was using my patrol vehicle for cover when I brought the suspect back to me but I ended up losing cover when I went to cuff the suspect. Lastly, they said I didn't use my radio enough to update dispatch of what I had. I only used my radio twice, to notify dispatch I was making entry into the building and when I had the suspect in custody.

      Comment


      • emtguy89
        emtguy89 commented
        Editing a comment
        I have a little more sympathy now that you mentioned calling for a drone, helicopter, etc. For most of my career I was lucky to have another officer available somewhere in the city...

    • #8
      My biggest concern is how failing out of a police academy would impact my chances of getting hired with another agency. Would appealing make any difference for future job opportunities? I'm currently a peace officer for corrections so hopefully that carries some kind of weight during the hiring decision.

      Comment


      • #9
        Originally posted by David916 View Post
        My biggest concern is how failing out of a police academy would impact my chances of getting hired with another agency. Would appealing make any difference for future job opportunities? I'm currently a peace officer for corrections so hopefully that carries some kind of weight during the hiring decision.
        Unless the appeal is upheld, it will not make any difference. For us, your corrections job wouldn't carry any more weight than any other job.

        Comment


        • #10
          You failed a mandated CA POST learning domain (LD)

          It does not matter how well you scored on any of the previous LDs that you passed; once you fail a LD (and fail the remedial test on that LD) , you are bounced per POST testing mandates (violation of which will get that academy decertified )

          Depending on which agencies you trying with, they may or may not take the chance on sending you back through another academy
          Last edited by LA DEP; 09-14-2021, 03:22 PM.
          The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

          "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

          "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

          Comment


          • David916
            David916 commented
            Editing a comment
            I recently spoke with a supervisor at the agency and he wants me to re-apply but unfortunately, I'll have to go through the whole background process again.

        • #11
          We have had recruits get the boot the week of graduation because they fail retest on a POST LD; its not uncommon at all
          The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

          "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

          "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

          Comment


          • 9L81
            9L81 commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm thinking a lot of the guys from states other than CA don't realize how different POST requirements can be. I remember when I was looking at getting a job as a local, I researched a lot of different academies in CA as well as other state's academies/hiring processes/standards. At times it was hard to believe they were effectively the same jobs when for instance CA had a mandated minimum of 880 hours in an academy IIRC and some states weren't even half that amount. Mind you I didn't see a single academy in CA that ran at that minimum training amount. Most were high 900s or more. This was 2006-2008 so I am sure much has changed.

        • #12
          Without knowing the specifics of the incident leading to your dismissal its hard to provide any meaningful comment. However, as one who has been involved in hearing many appeals I can offer the following -

          There are usually just two valid grounds for making any appeal. The first is that you didn't do what is alleged. In this case, it would be that your response to the crime in progress scenarios actually met the criteria for a passing mark and the evaluators were in error when they failed you or falsely did so. The second basis is that the test in question has no reasonable relationship to the position you are qualifying for (like insisting a janitorial applicant pass a test in trigonometry).

          Appealing because you really, really, really want the job and just need another chance, is not a valid basis for appeal.

          So, what will be the basis for your appeal?
          Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

          Comment


          • David916
            David916 commented
            Editing a comment
            I decided I'm not going to appeal.
            Last edited by David916; 09-16-2021, 06:01 PM.

        • #13
          Originally posted by David916 View Post
          I was recently dismissed from the Contra Costa SO academy for failing a scenario test. After talking to a few of my cop buddies, they were suggesting that I appeal the decision because my friends didn't agree that the mistakes I made were severe enough to fail the test. Is it worth appealing and what good does appealing do? I would assume they would still make me re-do the entire academy all over again, even if the appeal goes in my favor. So bummed out because I scored so well on all my other tests (all my exam scores were 90-100%) and I only had 2 weeks left of the academy.
          Originally posted by David916 View Post
          I failed my initial and remediation test for officer safety issues.

          .
          So, 6 months into an academy and you failed a test & remediation for OFFICER SAFETY issues.



          Your "friends" were not at the academy and observed your progress nor were they instructors who make the decisions on who is "trainable" or not

          yea good luck on that appeal

          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

          Comment


          • #14
            Might be a silly question but did they ever give you an idea of what the criteria was in the first place?

            Comment


            • #15
              Originally posted by Cavalry92 View Post
              Might be a silly question but did they ever give you an idea of what the criteria was in the first place?
              POST LD criteria are provided and reviewed multiple times for Cadets. There are NO surprises at all. None.

              Comment

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