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  • #31
    We previously used an aerosol that was almost always effective but because it was flammable we've moved to the new versions.

    The foam versions are ok but the streamer type just seems to lack impact. Working in traffic I very rarely need to use force but I'd like better odds on my OC working.

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    • #32
      For what it's worth, I'd be hit with Freeze +p over Red any day of the week. The Red messed my world up for almost two days after.

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      • #33
        It is worse than childbirth if that puts it into perspective. Make sure you wash your eyes and face out with baby shampoo really well. I had to wash my eyes out again the next day as there must have been some residue left. Good luck and don't cry like a baby!

        Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

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        • #34
          After being hit with Freeze yesterday I can definitely say that stuff will be 90+% effective. I was the only one in class who had it and I had guest instructors congratulating me afterward. Yikes.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Reedo View Post
            The worst I've ever used and also been hit with is Fox FivePointThree. It's 5.3 million Scoville heat units.

            I work in a downtown district and I routinely go through one or two whole party cans (riot control canisters) per weekend. Personal record was 2 in one night. I get hit with spray literally every weekend. We are issued 4oz personal size Freeze +P as a department. Being downtown, we also carry a party can of Freeze +P (17.5oz streamer) or First Defense Mk-9 (14oz streamer w/ 1.3MC) for bar close. Bar security carry everything, but most carry Freeze +P personal and party cans. One place started using Fox FivePointThree party cans and that stuff is far more brutal than what we use. The heat is just tremendous.

            At my previous agency in the 'burbs, we were issued Fox FivePointThree 2oz cans for personal duty use. That stuff was insane and to this day is the only OC spray I've ever had reactivate the next day in the shower. The night I got home I washed my face with baby shampoo to decon and it still reactivated the next day.

            So here I am, driving down the street after the crowds had mostly cleared and I had my window down. I was a half a block down from this bar and my eyes and face just start burning like hellfire. It sucked sooooo bad. Yeah, that was the Fox Labs FivePointThree that the bar I mentioned started using.

            Whatever you decide, consider that you're likely to be exposed as well. Just think about what you want to be exposed to.
            I will say that Freeze +P does go bad and have limited effectiveness once you get near the expiration date. I have heard that other companies vary, but some are better at longevity than others.

            I carry the Fox 5.3 product (not LE). The stuff kicks like a mule...and keeps kicking. I cannot imagine someone not being fazed by it. A question I have is that is that bar security personnel are private citizens and in Minnesota private citizens can only use "tear gas" to reasonably defend themselves or their property.

            Are the bar security personnel following statute, or are they using the spray as crowd control and to disperse people from the sidewalks in front of their establishments?

            Also...kudos on using two family sized canisters in one night! With that crazy bar close. it doesn't shock me at all.

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            • #36
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nt7UJLnI5E
              I don't expect you to know what it takes to deal with what I deal with every day in a high risk area because you've never been swinging in the breeze dealing with XYZ with no qualified immunity to protect everything you own and no cavalry at the end of a radio...

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              • #37
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kAkHPuBM8U

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by allen_gamble View Post
                  Tasers also have a pretty low success rate (based on personal observation), but I still like them better. They don't usually end up contaminating you and your buddies. I've seen the Taser fail more times than I've seen it work, but I still go to Taser before spray. Also unholstering a Taser seems to get folks' attention better than pepper spray.
                  My experience is the opposite. Ive seen Taser work more times than fail, and usually the fail has been due to something the officer did: too close, too far, under penetration due to thick clothes etc. As for OC, ive only used it once in the field and would delete it and my baton from my belt if I didn't fear that the one day I didn't have them, I would need them.
                  "Its not what you know, its what you can prove."-Training Day

                  "Game on, bitches. Whoop whoop, flash the lights, pull it over."

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