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13 year military vet looking at Texas departments

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  • #16
    I am very familiar with the advice in the Applicants Guide to Getting Hired of "This all boils down to: If you have a criminal record, your chances are not very good. As you will face elimination before you will compete in selection."

    That being said, does anyone have any advice on my current situation? I did not think these these two charges from so long ago would still have such an impact on getting hired in LE, and tried to excel in my military career to possibly offset that. However, knowing how bad Dallas is hurting for officers, and for them to give me the boot so early in the process, I am seriously concerned with my chances of getting hired anywhere, especially in Texas.

    If I were able to get hired by a small department and do a few years there, would that help to at all trying to get on with DPS or other large departments? I seem to get told by officers I talk to all the time, " Just go start somewhere small, in the middle of nowhere, then lateral." I am just curious as to whether a department that would not hire me now due to these charges, would make the distinction if I were already a sworn officer? In my opinion, I would think it would not change their mind, but maybe I am wrong.

    And contrary to some opinions/posts in this thread, I do not expect to go straight in at the rank of SGT, or skip the academy all together, and take over as a SWAT Team leader on my first day or any other whazoo notions. I want to work patrol, and be back out in the field with troops, preferably in a rough area with a steep learning curve. That is the whole reason for leaving the military after 13 years, as I didn't want to ride a desk doing leadership and admin positions for another 7 years just for a retirement check. Just looking for some insight into what I can do to increase my chances of getting a foot in the door.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill

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    • #17
      Deleted to maintain professional dialogue.
      Last edited by _JohnnyUtah; 02-26-2017, 04:12 PM. Reason: Don't argue with fools; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
      War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill

      Comment


      • #18
        Listen, John, I understand your predicament and I'm quite certain that getting knocked out of DPD testing as quickly as it happened was surprising and upsetting. I, and all the others as well, fully appreciate how important this is for you. No one wishes you ill and HONESTY is always best......PERIOD.

        So with that said.....are your chances better if you get hired by a small agency and then lateral out in a few years?

        1) You have to get hired by a small agency first. This is not impossible but is FAR LESS likely than it was....as has been stated before by others. The hiring climate in LE today is way different than it was just a few short years ago. Small agencies have large numbers of applicant, too. They have applicants out the wazoo.

        2)
        Just go start somewhere small, in the middle of nowhere, then lateral...
        Uhm, you don't seriously think you are the only one who thought of this tactic, right? Or that 'larger' agencies aren't properly vetting for this, too? Or that smaller agencies aren't vetting out applicants before they hire who might be inclined to 'use' them in this manner?

        3) It is clear that you are not realizing how many applicants are trying to get into LE or how many of them are qualified, capable, and don't have background issues like you.

        I recommend that you stay in military and get that retirement. get another seven years between yourself and those background issues and maybe develop a relationship through communication, ride-a-longs, and such with a single specific agency you want to work for and stay with until retirement.

        Lastly, I really don't have any further advice for you other than maybe you might want to check the 'attitude' that 'smaller' agencies are so desperate that they hire other agencies rejects.......

        Banjo use for defensive tactics at 'smaller' agencies is moving out of style.....

        Good luck and thank you for your service.

         
        Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
        “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

        Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
        “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

        George Washington, (1732-1799)
        "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

        Originally posted by Country_Jim
        ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Langford PR View Post
          Listen, John, I understand your predicament and I'm quite certain that getting knocked out of DPD testing as quickly as it happened was surprising and upsetting. I, and all the others as well, fully appreciate how important this is for you. No one wishes you ill and HONESTY is always best......PERIOD.

          So with that said.....are your chances better if you get hired by a small agency and then lateral out in a few years?

          1) You have to get hired by a small agency first. This is not impossible but is FAR LESS likely than it was....as has been stated before by others. The hiring climate in LE today is way different than it was just a few short years ago. Small agencies have large numbers of applicant, too. They have applicants out the wazoo.

          2) Uhm, you don't seriously think you are the only one who thought of this tactic, right? Or that 'larger' agencies aren't properly vetting for this, too? Or that smaller agencies aren't vetting out applicants before they hire who might be inclined to 'use' them in this manner?

          3) It is clear that you are not realizing how many applicants are trying to get into LE or how many of them are qualified, capable, and don't have background issues like you.

          I recommend that you stay in military and get that retirement. get another seven years between yourself and those background issues and maybe develop a relationship through communication, ride-a-longs, and such with a single specific agency you want to work for and stay with until retirement.

          Lastly, I really don't have any further advice for you other than maybe you might want to check the 'attitude' that 'smaller' agencies are so desperate that they hire other agencies rejects.......

          Banjo use for defensive tactics at 'smaller' agencies is moving out of style.....

          Good luck and thank you for your service.
          I appreciate the insight and honest answers. I wasn't sold on the realistic chances with the idea of "just apply to a small agency and work your way up", however, that seems to be the general advice I have gotten from buddies that have gotten out became cops, or guys that are currently on the job that I talk to. It may just be an outdated way of thinking, or they may just not know, especially if they had no issues getting hired themselves. And to be clear, "just go start somewhere small, in the middle of nowhere, then lateral..." was in quotes when I wrote it, as I said it was the advice I continue to receive, not may way of thinking in regards to smaller departments (which I know nothing about).

          I am already out of the military, so the big leap has already been made. I thought I had my next gig lined up as I was leaving the military. My old man is a FBI Agent, and I went through the entire hiring process with them last year, passed Phase 1, PFT, Phase 2, conditional job offer, doing the BI, all the way up to the poly prior to the Academy. Although they had known about these charges from my initial application, they came up again prior to the poly, and HQ decided to take a look and rethink it for a few months, and I was eventually disqualified. They were super professional through the whole process, but explained that even though the charges were Class B Misdemeanors, and it was 14 years ago in high school, since the charge involved theft, it would make me a liability in the future if I had to testify in Federal court (they cited Giglio and witness character issues). I was most disappointed that they had known about it since the beginning (18 months prior), and still let me advance through the entire process until the end.

          That is why I am as upfront as possible whenever I speak to recruiters now, almost making it sound worse than it was, as I would rather me told no on Day 1, as opposed to Day 366, especially when flying in from out-of-state for the whole ordeal. That is where my frustration came from with Dallas, as I would have just preferred to have been told no when I laid it all out during the phone interviews.

          And for those still reading, who think there must be more to these charges, some friends and I took a couple hundred bucks we found in a lockbox from the hardware store my buddy was working at. He had let us in after he closed up, and like a couple of dumb, wanna be tough guy high schoolers, we took the money. That's it. The whole story. We all confessed and owned up to it. The small town PD that worked the case charged us all with three felonies (B&E, Receive Stolen Property, Conspiracy), but they were all quickly thrown out once a judge looked at it. He hit us with the two Class Bs and told us to pay it back and gave us 18 months probation. That would have prevented us from leaving for the Army (we were already enlisted in the Delayed Entry Program), so we volunteered to serve 60 days confinement instead in the county jail, so we could still leave for the Army. He agreed, we sat, we paid, we went to boot camp. It wasn't exactly the crime of the century, but it was wrong, and I am still paying for the consequences.

          What frustrated me (and my old man) was the FBI was really hung up on the fact that the initial charges were felonies, even though the convictions were only Class B's. Does that hold more weight when applicant coordinators are looking at my PHS? I clearly list what I was charged with, and the outcomes and disposition. Even the judge in the case called it "an overcharge given the circumstances of the event", but it was enough for the FBI to have issue with the initial charges and I am wondering if that is the case with departments as well? Is the conviction more important than the charge?
          Last edited by _JohnnyUtah; 02-26-2017, 10:47 AM. Reason: Clarification
          War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill

          Comment


          • #20
            I see what you're saying and while I can say that I empathize I am not surprised. I have been rejected as well...as, I might add, most of those who ever have gotten hired in LE have. It is and has always been a VERY COMPETITIVE career field. Maybe today it is more so than ever before.

            ......I am wondering if that is the case with departments as well? Is the conviction more important than the charge?
            That is the wrong question.......without any offense to you......that question is from your angle only and therefore based in relativism of the incident, period.

            The correct question is: Why should I hire this guy when I have (pick a number) of qualified candidates that have no BI issues at all?

            Keep trying if you choose to but do not be surprised with a lot of rejections.....you have a LOT of competition that doesn't have ANY baggage.

            Like I said above, develop a relationship with an agency and see where it gets you. But if you shotgun blast out applications in desperation I foresee no positive feedback for you when these agencies see your BI.
            Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
            “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

            Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
            “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

            George Washington, (1732-1799)
            "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

            Originally posted by Country_Jim
            ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Langford PR View Post

              Like I said above, develop a relationship with an agency and see where it gets you. But if you shotgun blast out applications in desperation I foresee no positive feedback for you when these agencies see your BI.
              That's the part that I am curious about. So far I have been flat out rejected from three agencies (Fairfax County, VA / San Antonio / Dallas PD) and then the FBI. But none of them have even advanced to the point of starting a BI. It always gets DQ'd before that point, so there is nothing to see in that regards to a BI. I continue to list all agencies and departments I have applied to and the reason I was DQ'd, as I would rather be 100% upfront and honest and just get told no right away. It saves the agency time and resources as well. Then only BI I have done on me right now is the one for my current TS-SCI clearance, which from what I have read, departments could care less about. Even the Feds don't really care about DoD clearances, and they do their own again.

              I appreciate the advice and feedback.


              War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill

              Comment


              • #22
                You might as well go back active, get an AGR spot, or try to finish off your 20 in the reserves.
                Anything involving some type of theft/deceit/misapplication of property will be given a hard look in LE...doesn't matter where you apply. The entire story of what really happened doesn't really matter. They'll look at what you were charged with initially, and what you plead out to or were handed out in court.
                Not saying you're un-hirable, but you will have an uphill battle with most departments.

                Yes, multiple departments (everywhere in the country) are very short handed, but the key word in today's world of law enforcement is "liability"., and no one wants to be on paper signing off on someone questionable.

                Good luck.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Quick update: I am through with all my testing for Arlington PD (Texas). Just got back from my poly, pysch, and med this week. Just waiting on the BI to be wrapped up, which should be good to go (they conducted the criminal portion of the BI first, so to speak, to make sure my charges would be good to go). Given the nature of the charges, the time since, and what I have done in the last 14 years, they had no issue.

                  Should be starting the 17JULY2017 academy.

                  Thanks for the advice and input.
                  War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    It's all official now, hired by Arlington PD (TX). Starting the academy in July, moving to Fort Worth at the end of the month.
                    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. - John Stuart Mill

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by _JohnnyUtah View Post
                      It's all official now, hired by Arlington PD (TX). Starting the academy in July, moving to Fort Worth at the end of the month.
                      Good stuff!
                      USAF VETERAN 2004-2012
                      "The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."-LTC Grossman
                      Department of the Army Police Officer (0083-06)

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                      • #26
                        Terrific! Good hanging in there, and congratulations to you!

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