A question of police policy

[jdr]

Well, I think I have commented enough about this issue so I will not be replying to any more discussions. I want to apologize to those officers who obey the laws and who do not take advantage of their positions for personal items, whether it be misusing one's position to speed from one point to another while off duty or expecting freebies at restaurants, etc. Those of you do obey the laws have my highest respect; howver, those who you who do not adhere to the laws know who you are and should be ashamed. It would be equitable for those of you who disobey the speed limits while off duty to be pulled over and cited for your violation just as we who are not cops are. If your citation involved your having to pay the same fine as we would have to pay and your having to go to court just like we private citizens have to do and having your auto insurance policy premium increased and having your driver's liscense suspended or revoked and lastly possibly having your insurance cancelled, I know that you would see matters differently. In closing, I again ask, "Who is watching you who are watching us? " Speeding is an offense and a crime, so if you are an officer who illegally speeds, you are a criminal.


Sincerely,
JDR

[WHC166]

In my state, on duty leo's are exempt from the speed limits, not sure about your state.

[jdr]

In my state, on duty leo's are exempt from the speed limits, not sure about your state.

Thank you for your reply. However, are there not certain restrictions that an officier must use when exceeding the speed limit is called for? As for off duty officers, why do they break the law when they know they are violating the same laws thet enforce? Many times I have wanted to pull over an officer whom I knew for certain was off duty and speeding. It appears they there is an abuse here. Who is watching those who are watching us? Again, this is wrong. By the way, I'm from KY.

[kadetklapp]

A police officer speeding?! *GASP!* WHAT WILL WE DO?!

Has it occured to you that many officers are dispatched multiple calls during the day and are expected by you, Mr. Citizen, to quickly and efficiently take care of each and every one of their complaints? I know that I have two calls in a "holding pattern" then I have to hurry the hell up and get from point a to point b. Also, if I pull out or turn on a traffic violator, it would be pretty stupid to "light it up" as soon as I do, since the violator may see me and make a run for it. Then you have a real mess on your hands.

Take a look next time you drive down the freeway, interstate, four lane highway or whatever. If a cop in a marked (or even unmarked) unit is driving the speedlimit or just over, people "stack up" behind him because they don't want to pass, but they dont' want to go the speed limit either. This has caused catostrophic wrecks and pile-ups. If the cop just gets ahead of the pack, he's eliminated the problem.

[msouzajr]

In bama no one is exempt from any traffic laws, LEO, fire, or elected official. The catch 22 is LEO's and fire need to respond to certain things as quickley and safely as possible, and you cannot ticket muncipal vehicles.
So if you speed or break any traffic laws in you cruiser, you cannot get a traffic ticket, but you can get disciplined from your dept for breaking traffic laws if the brass or elected officials catch you.
The city of Mobile spent a lot of money on car decals because a council person couldn't see the car number of the officer who sped down a street.

[sdb29]

I hope i can explain this in a way you can understand.. If I'm on patrol looking for speeders or people commiting other violations such as agressive driving, DUI, expired tags, defective equipment, etc., and I'm going the speed limit, then within a minute or two I've scanned all the cars around me that are also travelling the speed limit for violations. If one of the cars around me has a violation, then I light it up and stop it. If not, then I'm going to be driving down the highway surrounded by a bunch of people who I don't need to stop.
My job is to look for violators. If I slow down so the cars around me can go by and be replaced by other cars, no one will pass me. There's times I've slowed to 40 mph on an interstate, and no one will pass me.
So- the only way I can find new cars to look at for violations is to go faster than the flow of traffic so I can keep encountering new potential violators.
Same thing with speeders. If the speed limit is 65mph, no one is going 65 mph. The majority of traffic is flowing at 70mph, more or less. If I travel at 75mph I keep passing other cars and scanning for violators. If eventually I notice a car in front of me that I'm not closing on, I know he's doing at least 75mph, and can start to clock the operator with the intent to give a citation.

[WHC166]

Thank you for your reply. However, are there not certain restrictions that an officier must use when exceeding the speed limit is called for? As for off duty officers, why do they break the law when they know they are violating the same laws thet enforce? Many times I have wanted to pull over an officer whom I knew for certain was off duty and speeding. It appears they there is an abuse here. Who is watching those who are watching us? Again, this is wrong. By the way, I'm from KY.

An off duty officer takes the same chances anyone else does when they speed.

[chaser266]

A few police officers have told me that their speeding is one of the perks that come with the job and that this is no violation. I'm sorry, but I disagree with any one believes this, and I do not think that it is fair that this so called perk is used to get him/her from point A to point B more quickly than us other drivers. Can anyone tell me what the policy is in this matter?

JDR: You brought up an issue that is controversial, and you have taken an unpopular position, considering the venue. When I was growing up I remember at least one adult that I respect expressing disgust over speeding police officers, so I understand that it can be frustrating to the public. Therefore, I hope I can help you understand why police sometimes speed without emergency equipment activated.

First, lack of proper staffing levels. At some agencies, staffing is so bad that it is common to be dispatched from one call to the next all night long. If you can't hurry up and handle your calls, you might not be able to take a meal break. 12 hours is a long time to go with no meal break, especially on an ongoing basis. Plus, you want to handle all calls as quickly as possible so that you can be available if an officer needs help, or if a citizen has a legitimate emergency.

Second, think about your purpose on the highway versus the officer's purpose. He is not speeding to pick up the kids on time from soccer practice, or to get to the liquor store before they close. He is speeding for the greater good of the community. He may be en route to a non-emergency, but many non-emergencies can become emergencies if they are not handled quickly. For example, a domestic argument can easily become an aggravated violent encounter while the police are en route.

One thing that citizens forget is that even the most affluent communities have potentially serious crime problems. Just because your neighborhood does not look like a ghetto does not mean that your neighbors are Ozzie and Harriet. In my jurisdiction, one of our perceived "ghetto" neighborhoods seems to have fewer violent crimes than some of the higher-income neighborhoods. I am always amazed at all the tucked-away places the public does not see, where drug addicts and criminals live. So, even if you are in a "low-crime" suburban/rural area, please don't assume that the officer is speeding to get to his "speed trap" or coffee break.

One thing that you can do to reduce the need for officers to speed is to become active in your local political community. Inquire about staffing levels, and voice support for putting more cops on the street. Inquire about causes of attrition, and solutions. Voice your support for police by sending a letter to the editor of the local newspaper. Also, inquire about going on a ride-along with your local agency so that you can have a better understanding of what it is we do.

Finally, let me state that I do not support the small minority of officers that use unreasonable speed when no justification exists. In my experience, those officers will be discovered by supervisors within their agency, and they will be terminated if they do not learn quickly.

[Kieth M.]

Yes, I'm sure we would all want...make that demand, that the police to follow all the rules of the road....that is, of course, until they were headed to our house for a call that falls just short of a "lights & siren" emergency, but is a little higher on the priority list, than say, a nuisance.

Here out west, at one time, our dispatch policy said we drove code-3 (lights & siren) to a call with the circumstances of "suspect breaking in the front door, woman home alone" Yet, a woman being physically assaulted on the sidewalk in front of her home, was a non code-3 response, just get there, ASAP. (Thankfully, a mere patrol cop pointed out the idiocy of that policy to management and got it changed)

So here's a question back at you, JDR, how would you want the police to respond to your neighborhood, with a woman you know getting stalked or assaulted, and your local PD policy did not authorize a code-3 response???

And the speed rules are not, and should not be, bent for off-duty officers.

Thanks for your question, we'll file it appropriately ....and next time, it goes in the Ask a Cop section.

[Joseph]

Policy

I don't even want to get into this because there are so many reasons you can exceed the speed limit and still have a lawful reason for it and not have lights or sirens on. I think you want to know do police speed at times for no reason so I'll tell you to make you feel good. Yes, were human. How about you?

[1042 Trooper]

Hello. This is my first experience using a police message board so I hope I will not appear to be too stupid. My question has to do with police officers abiding by the same traffic regulations that us civilians must follow, in particular abiding by posted speed limits when not in pursuit of a violator of some traffic regulation. Maybe I am wrong, but it is my understanding that vehicle pursuits must involve the officer's use of his/her lights and/or sirens. Therefore, if a police officer is driving beyond a posted speed limit, he/she is committing a traffic violation. A few police officers have told me that their speeding is one of the perks that come with the job and that this is no violation. I'm sorry, but I disagree with any one believes this, and I do not think that it is fair that this so called perk is used to get him/her from point A to point B more quickly than us other drivers. Can anyone tell me what the policy is in this matter? Thank you.

Jerry

Jerry, I'm seeing a lot of excuses laid out here in a lot of official sounding language going the long way around a very touchy question you asked in a very respectful way.

You are right to suspect wrong doing here. No matter how many ways and how many times these officers try to explain it away, there is no justifiable reason for a police officer to break traffic law without a visible signal, unless in pursuit of a violator. On any other occasion, visible emergency lighting or siren must be used.

Many will claim these "in-between" calls or call stacking, but that is no excuse.

Having said all of this, remember cops are not robots. They act on emotion just like you do and will sometimes break the rules to do a beter job for you. Remember that the next time you see this

[WHC166]

Jerry, I'm seeing a lot of excuses laid out here in a lot of official sounding language going the long way around a very touchy question you asked in a very respectful way.

You are right to suspect wrong doing here. No matter how many ways and how many times these officers try to explain it away, there is no justifiable reason for a police officer to break traffic law without a visible signal, unless in pursuit of a violator. On any other occasion, visible emergency lighting or siren must be used.

Many will claim these "in-between" calls or call stacking, but that is no excuse.

Having said all of this, remember cops are not robots. They act on emotion just like you do and will sometimes break the rules to do a beter job for you. Remember that the next time you see this

Umm..not quite, as I posted earlier, it is both legal and a necessity here...

23 V.S.A. § 1011. Applicability of this chapter


§ 1011. Applicability of this chapter

(a) The provisions of this chapter relating to the operation of motor vehicles apply to operation upon public highways only, except where a different place is specifically referred to.

(b) On duty enforcement officers are exempt from the speed limits established in accordance with sections 1003 and 1007 of this title, and fixed by section 1081 of this title. (Added 1971, No. 258 (Adj. Sess.), § 3, eff. March 1, 1973.)

[chaser266]

No matter how many ways and how many times these officers try to explain it away, there is no justifiable reason for a police officer to break traffic law without a visible signal, unless in pursuit of a violator. On any other occasion, visible emergency lighting or siren must be used.

The Code of Virginia (46.2-920) would differ...

D. Any law-enforcement vehicle operated by or under the direction of a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer may disregard speed limits, while having due regard for safety of persons and property, (i) in testing the accuracy of speedometers of such vehicles, (ii) in testing the accuracy of speed measuring devices specified in § 46.2-882, or (iii) in following another vehicle for the purpose of determining its speed.

[1042 Trooper]

VT Fuzz and Chaser - If I read his post correctly, I thought he was asking about unjustifiable violations - not those as the both of you have pointed out. Indeed, and as I indicated, when for legitimate reasons such as pacing a violator, catching up with one we want to stop or other legitimate reasons, it's all good and legal. I took his post to mean those other times when we really do NOT have any justifiable reason to break the law other than our own convenience. Policy and the law prohibit it, but we still do it.

My point to him was that indeed, there are times we do break the rules without legal cause.

Now that I've completely muddied the water.....

[e-man]

Heres what I say to this...



Dont judge until you walk a mile in my shoes or boots.
WHY OH WHY is the Law Enforcement profession the only one where common citizens feel the need to nash and find out WHY we do things the way we do? I sure dont get on lawyers.com and ask Why are they all Bottom sucking scavengers and sure dont go to Mechanics dot com and ask Why they might upcharge people a little bit....
we speed with due regard because we might have to, if you dont like it, tough noogies
To add- What Chaser226 said