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Cops Miss Gun - Look for future ban

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  • Cops Miss Gun - Look for future ban

    Saw this on the local news:

    From 27 ABC TV:

    A Harrisburg man is accused of trying to shoot a New Jersey police officer with a concealed weapon - after the man had been handcuffed and taken into custody following a domestic violence complaint, according to a news release from the Ocean City Police Department.

    Martin L. Kieffer, 61, allegedly attempted to discharge the weapon as he was being removed from a patrol vehicle at police headquarters Saturday, but the gun malfunctioned and the bullet became lodged in the chamber, according to police. Officers were able to disarm Kieffer without further incident.

    Kieffer had concealed the weapon in a specially-made shirt which contained a holster in the armpit area, according to police. The weapon was a 10mm semi-automatic handgun containing 12 hollow point bullets, the release stated.

    Kieffer had been taken into custody in the 100 block of Anchorage Drive after a report he pointed a small handgun at the head of his 25-year-old son, according to police. That gun, a .22 caliber Derringer, was recovered at the scene.

    Kieffer was charged with attempted murder, aggravated assault and firearms violations and placed in the Cape May County Correctional Center in lieu of $750,000 full cash bail.

    Don't wanna trash fellow officers, but his gun was under his arm and it was a derringer, might have been easily missed. But they cuffed him in front. The PD spokesman stated "we missed it." Thank God it misfired.

    The shirt the perp was wearing was one of those 5.11 holster shirts. The reporter really played up the dangerous aspect of this kind shirt. Why would a civillian need one of these? etc. She also made sure to mention that his gun was loaded with "illegal hollowpoint" bullets. The video portion also showed a Glock to demonstrate the hollowpoints, implying that the Glock 9mm was the gun in question.

    Look for an opportunistic politician to introduce a "holster shirt" ban. After all this is the People's Republic of New Jersey we're talking about.
    Last edited by Deputy Medic; 07-31-2008, 07:51 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Deputy Medic View Post
    Don't wanna trash fellow officers, but his gun was under his arm and it was a derringer, might have been easily missed. But they cuffed him in front. The PD spokesman stated "we missed it." Thank God it misfired.
    It sounds like the derringer was what he pointed at his son, the 12-round 10mm was what he had under his arm. I guess that's a testimony to how well the 5-11 shirts conceal, huh?

    Glad to hear it misfired. Sounds like someone didn't sufficiently test their carry ammo.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have two of thse shirts. Their great for concealed carry. And I dont think there is a derringer that holds 12 rounds.

      And as far as the ban on the holster shirt, maybe, now that they are aware they exist, if they didnt before, Be on the lookout for them, and do a more thorough pat down. Its obvious more and more nowadays that LEO's dont know of everything thats out on the streets and/or some laws. So just because a subject surprised them with a pistol from one of these shirts, doesnt mean they should ban them.

      And what was up with getting cuffed in the front? I was arrested once right after I just had surgery on my shoulder, and even after begging, they cuffed me in back.
      Last edited by Tucker6900; 07-31-2008, 12:01 PM.
      The Red, Bold, Italic is my official sarcasm tag.



      "I think many years ago an advanced civilization intervened with us genetically and gave us just enough intelligence to develop dangerous technology but not enough to use it wisely. Then they sat back to watch the fun. Kind of like a human zoo. And you know what? They're getting their money's worth"
      George Carlin

      Comment


      • #4
        If I ever become a LEO it seems that one lesson I'll need to have stick is cuffing EVERYONE to the rear and never to the front.

        Tucson Police Department
        07/27/08 : Applied
        09/27/08 : Written Test 89/100
        09/28/08 : PT Test Finished Top 3 In Group A
        09/29/08 : Oral Board I Must've Done Well
        10/03/08 : Eligibility Rank #3 Of 51 Remaining
        10/13/08 : Polygraph Passed
        10/15/08 : BI Initiated

        Arizona Highway Patrol
        08/18/08 : Applied
        10/13/08 : Withdrawn

        Pima County Sheriffs
        10/25/08 : PT Test
        10/25/08 : Written Test
        10/27/08 : Oral Board


        "An Arizona Law Enforcement Hopeful"

        Comment


        • #5
          http://www.oceancitygazette.com/

          It sounds like there were two guns involved. The derringer recovered at the scene and the concealed GLOCK 29 the officers missed. If the report is accurate and there were 12 rounds stuffed in a magazine that holds ten rounds, we know why the gun jammed and two cops are alive today to tell the story.

          Pic from this article...

          http://www.whtm.com/news/stories/0708/539596.html




          Also, did I miss the information about the perp being handcuffed in front of his body? Where did that come from?
          "Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought" ~Henri Louis Bergson
          ______________________


          ComptonPOLICEGANGS.com

          Comment


          • #6
            ^
            theres an extension that you can put on that adds 2 more rounds to the magazine

            Comment


            • #7
              I have one of those shirts, it is built into an underarmor compression tee shirt, there is no way a half decent pat down would miss the gun :-), it IS pretty stealthy with a small handgun and a not skin tight polo shirt. But no way would you miss the gun if you felt under my arm.

              Bill
              Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

              Comment


              • #8
                We had a cop shot last year by handcuffed (behind the back) suspect with a .357 magnum concealed in his baggy pants. Thankfully, the officer survived his wounds. The suspect did not.

                Needless to say the probationer required remediation on pat-down searches.
                "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

                Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

                Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This just serves as an example to always THROUGHLY search your suspects....no matter their age, sex, ect......

                  Reminds me of the video that was put out a couple of years ago that shows the suspect being walked into a interview room, after being arrested for SHOOTING at a LEO. The detective walks out for a moment, the suspect pulls a LARGE handgun out of his waistband, and then commits suicide.
                  The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                  "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                  "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kieth M. View Post
                    We had a cop shot last year by handcuffed (behind the back) suspect with a .357 magnum concealed in his baggy pants. Thankfully, the officer survived his wounds. The suspect did not.

                    Needless to say the probationer required remediation on pat-down searches.
                    Supposedly as that guy was taking his last breaths he looked at the copper he shot and said "I got you first"

                    There was an incident at an unnamed division where officers arrested suspect, transported him to the station, took his personal property and then loocked him in a holding tank, he sat there for three hours. Officers then put their guns in the jail locker and walked the susp from the tank to the jail for booking. Once at the booking window the susp turned to an officer and said "he sir, I don't know the best way to tell you but I have a gun in my pants. The officer reached in the front waste band of the susp and pulled out a mack-10 with a fully loaded 30 rnd mag. good thing for those officers that guy didn't go ape on them and the whole station for that matter.

                    Be thorough with searches guys, it'll save your life.
                    Originally Posted by VegasMetro
                    maybe it’s me but I think a six pack and midget porn makes for good times?????

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If I can find the pennie's on my 18 month old after the gets into my drawer, I think you'd fins a full size pistol with a REAL search.

                      I'm betting that Dept is going to be pretty thouough after this.

                      M-11
                      “All men dream...... But not equally..
                      Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                      but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                      for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                      TE Lawrence

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The department has about 50 seasonal officers working during the summer, but this incident involves all full time officers. Rumor has it that all of the officers are under investigation. Hopefully they will now realize that will always cuff in the rear and search, search and search again.
                        Being a good street cop is like coming to work in a wet suit and peeing in your pants. It's a nice warm feeling, but you're the only one who knows anything has happened.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mtxpro752 View Post
                          Supposedly as that guy was taking his last breaths he looked at the copper he shot and said "I got you first"
                          I interviewed the officer involved. One of my last acts, there, was to put him in for a medal...still awaiting outcome.

                          The suspect said, "You're dead!"
                          "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

                          Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

                          Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kieth M. View Post
                            I interviewed the officer involved. One of my last acts, there, was to put him in for a medal...still awaiting outcome.

                            The suspect said, "You're dead!"
                            I knew it was something like that, that was a bad situation. I never heard, did that PI stay on the job?
                            Originally Posted by VegasMetro
                            maybe it’s me but I think a six pack and midget porn makes for good times?????

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ........ The weapon was a 10mm semi-automatic handgun containing 12 hollow point bullets, the release stated............... She also made sure to mention that his gun was loaded with "illegal hollowpoint" bullets.
                              Quick question for LEOs over there. Are hollow points illegal in the US? I ask because our service issued pistols are .40cal Glocks and our street rounds are hollow points. So much better for remaining inside the grub who will justify use of deadly force instead of passing through to create a danger to others.
                              If at first you don't succeed, remove all evidence of your attempt.

                              Comment

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