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What do you make of this? Awards after no-knock raid on wrong house

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  • t150vsuptpr
    replied
    Originally posted by ProLEOCiv
    Sorry, but that's my impression from reading some of the posts on this site.
    Shocking.

    Last edited by t150vsuptpr; 08-06-2008, 03:47 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ProLEOCiv
    replied
    Atlanta

    OK, how many comments were made about the old lady in Atlanta calling her and her family POSs in defense of the officers?

    I never said officers were out to screw John Q citizen, I'm merely saying that LEOs tend to defend their own and nobody would simply write it off as a horrible accident if an officer had been killed in this situation.

    If this had happened, I believe the homeowner would be in jail facing charges, whether they'd stick or not. At the very least, I'd bet he'd be charged with assaulting a police officer and most would probably be supporting the charges based on "he should have known it was police from the officer yelling" or something along those lines.

    Sorry, but that's my impression from reading some of the posts on this site.

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    Originally posted by ProLEOCiv View Post
    Tony, I'm going to have to call BS on this statement. I've seen enough threads on this site to know that if an officer were killed because of this mistake, nobody on here would be just sitting here saying, oops, just a horrible mistake. More than likely, there'd be some comments about the homeowner actually being a POS criminal who just hasn't been caught yet... blah, blah, blah.
    In this case, I don't think anyone would be saying that. Where an LEO might say that is if real criminal activity were taking place and the criminal, who should assume that a warrant could be served to him or his residence, shoots an officer then claims he didn't know it was the police and thought he was being robbed, that excuse is used alot by real criminals.
    Contrary to what you may believe, most officers aren't out to screw john Q citizen. I may only write two motorists tickets out of ten stops because I'm not going to punish an honest citizen for some minor traffic violation when these**** criminals are getting away with their crimes because our justice system sucks. We have a no pusuit policy except for violent feloneys, so in this city if your a criminal who is going to get pulled over for a traffic violation, just keep driving and after 60 seconds our supervisors tells us to stop, the scum gets off. A citizen pulls over and gets a ticket. Thats why I haven't touched a radar gun for at least two months and don't plan to anytime soon. Trust me, most officers I work with don't give a damn about writing you traffic tickets or screwing honest citizens, like some of the gung ho ticket writing posters.
    Last edited by tony.o; 08-05-2008, 11:44 PM.

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  • t150vsuptpr
    replied
    Originally posted by tony.o to t150vsuptpr
    Originally posted by t150vsuptpr
    Or maybe he just doesn't want to be another victim?

    I understand his reasoning, ... etc ...

    No knock raids and warrant services are dangerous, ... etc ...

    I understand the need for these raids, just make damn sure that it's the right place and have more than just the intel provided by some CI who maybe has some ulterior motives.
    Busting the door down five seconds after knocking at 3am won't make any difference in these cases, would it. Unless you actually wait for soemone to answer. Is that what you want, for someone to answer the door? ... etc ... and etc ...
    I think that I was clear enough in my last post. It's the one where I just pointed out another viewpoint to one of your's.

    Stay safe all ........

    Leave a comment:


  • Surf
    replied
    Originally posted by ProLEOCiv View Post
    Tony, I'm going to have to call BS on this statement. I've seen enough threads on this site to know that if an officer were killed because of this mistake, nobody on here would be just sitting here saying, oops, just a horrible mistake. More than likely, there'd be some comments about the homeowner actually being a POS criminal who just hasn't been caught yet... blah, blah, blah.
    Well I am going to have to call BS on your statement. This is one of the most assinine statements I have seen. I would not be looking to cruicify the homeowner but instead I would be wanting to crucify whomever made the mistake to hit the wrong damn house.

    Leave a comment:


  • ProLEOCiv
    replied
    Bs

    Originally posted by tony.o View Post
    Yeah it would be. You looking for something thats not here to argue about?
    Tony, I'm going to have to call BS on this statement. I've seen enough threads on this site to know that if an officer were killed because of this mistake, nobody on here would be just sitting here saying, oops, just a horrible mistake. More than likely, there'd be some comments about the homeowner actually being a POS criminal who just hasn't been caught yet... blah, blah, blah.

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    Originally posted by GWBJR
    Is it still just a mistake if the results were reversed, wrong house and officer down????
    Yeah it would be. You looking for something thats not here to argue about?

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    Originally posted by willbird View Post
    Due to the typical locations of drug dealing the people who are the innocent victims of "awful mistakes" typically are not politically connected people.

    There is such a thing as "timing" which all of us out in the world have to deal with, if we set a production record at work, but the parts are all bad due to an engineering error (not OUR error)...guess what ?? We are not going to be getting an award :-).

    Bill
    Whats this have to do with my posts? Maybe you should stick your toes in the pool before jumping in, casue I don't know what your referring to.
    Last edited by tony.o; 08-05-2008, 02:35 PM.

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  • willbird
    replied
    Originally posted by tony.o View Post
    Your naive and no one is saying this wasn't an awful mistake.
    Due to the typical locations of drug dealing the people who are the innocent victims of "awful mistakes" typically are not politically connected people.

    There is such a thing as "timing" which all of us out in the world have to deal with, if we set a production record at work, but the parts are all bad due to an engineering error (not OUR error)...guess what ?? We are not going to be getting an award :-).

    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    Originally posted by milo hobgoblin View Post
    Even drug dealers have to eventually leave their home. Unless someone in the home is in imminent danger.. why not just wait till they leave the hme and snatch them up when they're walking to their car?

    Again.. dont expect a lot of sympathy when you give none.

    This man was a law abiding citizen defending his home.. he would have NO reason to think someone who busted down his door would be a cop as he had committed no crime.. he had EVERY right to fire on those officers in that situtaion and I can promise you every single police officer on this board would have done the same had someone busted into their house for no apparent reason.

    No knock warrants should be banned unless there is someone in imminent danger.. is that better?
    Your naive and no one is saying this wasn't an awful mistake.

    Leave a comment:


  • milo hobgoblin
    replied
    Originally posted by jtaylor38 View Post
    Yeah....so that when a team is there to make entry into a potentially very hostile situation, instead of opening the door, those inside can just just blasting through the door, through the windows, set up traps, get set in bettering defensive positions.

    No Knock warrants allow the surprise to be on the side of the entry teams when its probable that it will be a bad situation. There are definitely times when it is truly needed for the safety of the officers and success of the mission.

    At lest thats my view.
    Even drug dealers have to eventually leave their home. Unless someone in the home is in imminent danger.. why not just wait till they leave the hme and snatch them up when they're walking to their car?

    Again.. dont expect a lot of sympathy when you give none.

    This man was a law abiding citizen defending his home.. he would have NO reason to think someone who busted down his door would be a cop as he had committed no crime.. he had EVERY right to fire on those officers in that situtaion and I can promise you every single police officer on this board would have done the same had someone busted into their house for no apparent reason.

    No knock warrants should be banned unless there is someone in imminent danger.. is that better?

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    Originally posted by GWBJR
    Actually it is problem for all, we can all learn from others mistakes. And we should all try to see what could have been changed. What is training: Error without consequence, so lets learn from everyone.
    What does training have to do with getting a warrant for a house that didn't have illegal activety going on in it in the first place . And what difference would it have made in this case to have knocked on the door prior to crashing in.

    Leave a comment:


  • velobard
    replied
    Originally posted by injunwil View Post
    BTW- NO! they weren't shooting to kill him, they were shooting to stop a threat. that's why they stopped when the threat was over and didn't continue until he was dead.
    I believe you could say the same about the resident.

    Leave a comment:


  • injunwil
    replied
    this turned out NOWHERE NEAR as bad as it could have

    never the less, a HUGE mistake was made. a mistake that should be traceable back to someone and that someone (maybe more than one) should have to answer for the mistake.

    i'm in favor of a nice size settlement to the family, it will show the Dept. they have to be more careful. the same way a speeding ticket shows people they need to slow down.

    i can only imagine how tragic this would be at some of our houses.

    BTW- NO! they weren't shooting to kill him, they were shooting to stop a threat. that's why they stopped when the threat was over and didn't continue until he was dead.

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    Originally posted by t150vsuptpr View Post
    Or maybe he just doesn't want to be another victim?

    I understand his reasoning, he's looking at it from the perspective of a citizen wanting to feel safe in his home. He's probably not so interested in placing excessive restrictions on police, he just maybe wants to be secure in his home. I'm the same way, I can see a lot of room for such screwups when searches are conducted based solely on informants info with no corroboration of any kind. I am reminded of the 92 year old lady in Georgia in a bothed raid and a cover up attempt.

    No knock raids and warrant services are dangerous, just a bunch of hooded folk in the dark breaking down a locked door, brandishing firearms, sleeping home owner, maybe armed, awaken out of deep slumber ..... I think it behooves any officer conducting such a raid to make sure the address is right beforehand.

    I understand the need for these raids, just make damn sure that it's the right place and have more than just the intel provided by some CI who maybe has some ulterior motives.
    Busting the door down five seconds after knocking at 3am won't make any difference in these cases, would it. Unless you actually wait for soemone to answer. Is that what you want, for someone to answer the door?
    This guy is like so many, when they're the object of a police action, they think they have all these rights, some that don't exist, but when they're the victim, nobody else has rights and they want immediate action that we can't legally take. "You just lettin him go, you aint gonna arrest him." 'Man, they aint doin s**" (while calling his mommy on his cell phone).
    As far as some of the mentioned botched raids, you'd have to ask them why they messed up, thats their problem, but I'm not going to go along with the knee jerk public reaction to issues they have little understanding of.

    Leave a comment:

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