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What do you make of this? Awards after no-knock raid on wrong house

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  • #16
    should everyone who gets injured while in the line of duty receive a medal?
    "Friendly Fire, isn't"

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    • #17
      Was SWAT given the wrong address by the investigators or did they go to the wrong location after the warrant had been obtained? My understanding is that SWAT should always recon the location prior to executing the S/W to ensure the right location is hit.

      Even if they went to the correct location (indicated on the warrant), something doesn't seem right about commending officers for a shootout with an innocent, unsuspecting homeowner. I realize that officers in this jurisdiction aren't always restricted to "knock and notice" before doing entries, but situations like this make it understandable why he have such a law in CA.
      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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      • #18
        Originally posted by GC Tiger View Post
        A police department that stands behind it's officers and blames a "general" is a very rare and wonderous creature indeed.
        +1

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        • #19
          This is why no knock warrants should be banned.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by enterthedragon
            If SWAT is called in and Detective A or Officer B has a warrant in hand for Address X, then SWAT is going to hit Address X based on what A or B tell them. The above article says that SWAT hit the correct address.
            Yes that sounds logical enough at that level, but where would the informant intel be verfied? Surely there's something other than an informant's word before a no-knock warrant. There have been enough nightmare situations in the past that have turned out badly that I have to suppose there's a little more to it.

            The department is stating that officers put themselves infront of the kids to block them from gunfire, maybe its the same officers that took the hits from shrapnel etc.
            If officers shielded kids in the house then obviously that's commendable, but I would have to guess if they were next to innocent bystanders then they weren't actively firing at that point so they'd be less likely to draw fire. Also, if the resident who was firing his shotgun had any idea where his other kids were (and I suspect he did since there was some verbal communication with his oldest son) then he wouldn't have been shooting in their direction.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JohnnyPA View Post
              This is why no knock warrants should be banned.
              Yeah....so that when a team is there to make entry into a potentially very hostile situation, instead of opening the door, those inside can just just blasting through the door, through the windows, set up traps, get set in bettering defensive positions.

              No Knock warrants allow the surprise to be on the side of the entry teams when its probable that it will be a bad situation. There are definitely times when it is truly needed for the safety of the officers and success of the mission.

              At lest thats my view.
              "Every morning all the stupid people in your life get together to come up with more ways to make your life more difficult"

              PST.com Written/Physical - 3/13/11 - Passed
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              • #22
                Originally posted by JohnnyPA View Post
                This is why no knock warrants should be banned.

                No knock warrants prevent far more problems than they cause. The majority that go well are just not news worthy and largly get ignored.
                There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by kknudsen View Post
                  No knock warrants prevent far more problems than they cause. The majority that go well are just not news worthy and largly get ignored.
                  I respect that they are sometimes necessary and appropriate, but when they go wrong (like in this story) the potential is so horrible that they need to be undertaken very carefully. From the information about this case it sounds like the process failed, very likely from someone getting a little too casual about details.

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                  • #24
                    I sure if I was the person assigned to do a raid I would probably want the option of surprise also. However, there seem to be many mistakes that happen with this type of raid. I fully believe that if the police come to my house by mistake, I would probably die as I probably would go for my defensive firearm before I realized what was going on. I could post a dozen links illustrating this, but you ll know what could happen already. Also, there have been several home invasions where the intruders have shouted police.

                    I would rather you lose some evidence than kill an innocent person a small percentage of the time. That is the cost of living in a free country.

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                    • #25
                      I don't think the no knock portion of this warrant is the issue. If it was executed in the middle of the night, if they knocked and announced, waited, possible no response, SWAT will breach. I've been on many drug search warrants where we had to force entry. The issue I see is not whith SWAT. Like stated above, SWAT doesn't work the case, they get called for the execution of the search warrant. The issue here is the verification of informant information. Alot of case law is based on what was known at the time or what should have been reasonably known. SWAT relies on the case agents providing correct information. Sounds like the SWAT guys showed great restraint and realized that something wasn't right. Kudos to the SWAT guys. Somebody will be held accountable for the mistake that was made, but I don't think it's gonna be SWAT.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by K9Tom View Post
                        I don't think the no knock portion of this warrant is the issue. If it was executed in the middle of the night, if they knocked and announced, waited, possible no response, SWAT will breach. I've been on many drug search warrants where we had to force entry. The issue I see is not whith SWAT. Like stated above, SWAT doesn't work the case, they get called for the execution of the search warrant. The issue here is the verification of informant information. Alot of case law is based on what was known at the time or what should have been reasonably known. SWAT relies on the case agents providing correct information. Sounds like the SWAT guys showed great restraint and realized that something wasn't right. Kudos to the SWAT guys. Somebody will be held accountable for the mistake that was made, but I don't think it's gonna be SWAT.
                        +1...it sounds to me like the dept has acknowledged several times that the warrant was a screw up based on bad intel. What they are also doing is saying we called the tac guys in, told them here is a warrant we need served on a dangerous gang member's residence. The tac guys did what they do and their dept thinks that they did it well regardless of the bad intel responsible for the warrant in the 1st place. If they hit the wrong house or something that could be on them I suppose but it sounds like they hit the right place, the info about the "right place" was bad. Tac units will scout the location but they are not going to re-investigate another officers case.
                        There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JohnnyPA View Post
                          This is why no knock warrants should be banned.
                          Sure, and we should ban guns and police in general to prevent such incidents .......
                          Space for rent .........

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                          • #28
                            Wonder if the investigator tried to corroborate the address supplied by the informant in any way?

                            I agree the SWAT guys did OK under the circumstances, it could have been a bloodbath. I'm sure the city will ante up before it's all said and done.
                            Last edited by t150vsuptpr; 08-02-2008, 02:07 AM.
                            "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

                            "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

                            >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

                            Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

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                            • #29
                              I just don't think I could accept an award under those circumstances. Most of the time, I could care less what the ignorant public thinks, but in this case it does make the department look rediculous.
                              The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JohnnyPA View Post
                                This is why no knock warrants should be banned.
                                Your like alot of people, restrict the ability of law enforcement to do their job, until your the victim, then you'll bitch about why the police don't do nothin.
                                The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

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