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  • #91
    Originally posted by TheKansan View Post
    I am not the kind of person who sits there and worries that a fish is suffering before I chop it's head off, gut it, scale it, and then cook it.

    Do you think the snake worries about the rat it swallows whole? Do you think the lion ponders the suffering of the elk it is eating? Do you think the spider feels any sympathy for the fly?
    I think humans should adhere to a higher non-cruelty standard than other non-exclusively-herbivore animals. I'm glad to see that you behead the fish before you do the rest. Earlier you discussed scaling a fish before it was killed. Here you discussed killing it first. Killing it first is what I was saying.

    (the following edited in later)

    Constrictor snakes suffocate their prey by crushing before they swallow it. Lions kill their prey, generally by stopping the breathing, or by causing bleedout, or by breaking, at the neck, before they eat it. They don't eat it while it's still alive. Mountain lions generally hunt alone, and aren't able to take elk. Elk are more vulnerable to a pack of wolves, who also kill before they eat. You're right about spiders. They don't ensure that their insect prey is dead before they drain it. They just trap it with their urinary web fluid and commence. But insects aren't mammals, and are not capable of anywhere near as much suffering as higher animals, even fishes, are capable of.
    Last edited by Monty Ealerman; 08-02-2008, 02:56 PM.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Taylor13 View Post
      Eclipse, as much as you think your right on almost everything, your a stubborn liberal 14 year old, your the type of kid I want to punch after the first month, of school, I know your type, dude, I'm trying not to be as active so I don't annoy people on here, I'm going to suggest to you that you stop before you get banned or everyone just ignores you.
      I think you're a good kid, but you ticked me me off with your suggestion of violence. Here's a short grown person lecture from me to you, whom I believe to be a bright teenager:

      It's, "you're", a contraction of "you are", not "your", which latter is the possessive of "you", i.e. ("i.e" signifies "id est" which means "it is") something that belongs to you. Don't be such an idiot as to confuse "your" with "you're". You're way too smart to be doing that. Being stubborn means being tenacious if you're right, and being pigheaded if you're wrong. In the former case, it's a virtue; in the latter, it's a flaw. Throwing sentences together with commas is poor writing. You know better. Stop calling people "dude". That's a cheap way to act as if they should already know you're right. Don't threaten what you can't do. It's not up to you who gets banned or whom we ignore.

      If you want to take me to task for barking at you, I'll try to understand.

      Regards,

      Monty
      Last edited by Monty Ealerman; 08-02-2008, 06:53 AM.

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      • #93
        Does anyone want to talk about young psychopaths?


        Screw it the meat vs. vegan argument is great.

        CrossFit

        RossTraining

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Smolla126 View Post
          WoW! This thread very hijacked and I don't think JMTX even posted ONCE!

          Seriously, though. Okay. Some comments from the peanut gallery.
          1)First of all, the reason that you may have been refered to as "high and mighty" was that you are NOT one of the vegetarians that you can go out with. Not in a dating sense, but in a friend sense. My best friend is a vegetarian, but she isn't going to sit there and look down her nose at me and tell me how the animal was killed while I try to eat a hamburger. She just doesn't eat one. I respect you for not eating meat, but considering that you are talking to a lot of cops, just leave it alone. Most guys here would love nothing more than to fire up the grill and flame-broil a filet.
          2)Secondly, humans are omnivores, not herbivores. That's why some of our teeth are pointy. A proper diet includes protien. Personally, I don't like re-fried beans, so I'm quite happy with my prime rib, thanks. Protein deficiency is a big problem, especially among teenage vegetarians. Things like refried beans, lentils and kidney beans need to replace the meat portion of your diet, or you will end up sick.
          3)Humans aren't the only creatures that eat meat. It happens. You can't get a creature that naturally eats me to stop (although they made a joke about it on Futurama once, I think. Funny. ^_^)
          4) I'm not condoning inhumane slaughter. I only buy meat from the family owned butcher here in my city. But not everyone can do that. It's expensive. It would be nice, but it just isn't a reality, and once you get out into the big-boy world, you might realize that a little better.
          5) 500,000 really isn't that many. Also, brush up on your politics. Organizations like WHO believe that there is more than enough food on this planet already to feed everyone. The problem is the people in power. This was already stated and convienently ignored.
          6) The grain that humans eat and the grain that animals eat isn't the same. We don't eat feed corn. We eat sweet corn. So your argument is null there. And if you try to argue that the space could be used for sweetcorn? Farmers intentionally plant feed corn around the edges of their plots to prevent theft and to distract animals from getting to the more valuable human-consumed corn.
          That's all for me for now. And now to sit back and observe the chaos.

          OUTSTANDING RESPONSE!!!

          Tucson Police Department
          07/27/08 : Applied
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          09/28/08 : PT Test Finished Top 3 In Group A
          09/29/08 : Oral Board I Must've Done Well
          10/03/08 : Eligibility Rank #3 Of 51 Remaining
          10/13/08 : Polygraph Passed
          10/15/08 : BI Initiated

          Arizona Highway Patrol
          08/18/08 : Applied
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          Pima County Sheriffs
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          "An Arizona Law Enforcement Hopeful"

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          • #95
            Originally posted by djblank87 View Post
            Does anyone want to talk about young psychopaths?


            Screw it the meat vs. vegan argument is great.
            That would be nice huh; my opinion on the matter:

            Don't get me wrong, what the kid did to the cat is definitely insane. Is this a sign of a future murderer.......I don't know about that but we'll have to see. I for one sure can't say that I've been an angel around animals when I was a child (though I've never lit one on fire). but I can that I'm one of the most non-violent persons you'll ever meet (that goes for both humans and the animal kind). Yep; I did my dumb stuff as a child that animals suffered but that was then and it didn't take long for that season to past. Perhaps there is hope for the kid and perhaps he will grow up to be a serial/violent killer.
            Last edited by jshawn; 08-02-2008, 11:54 AM.

            Tucson Police Department
            07/27/08 : Applied
            09/27/08 : Written Test 89/100
            09/28/08 : PT Test Finished Top 3 In Group A
            09/29/08 : Oral Board I Must've Done Well
            10/03/08 : Eligibility Rank #3 Of 51 Remaining
            10/13/08 : Polygraph Passed
            10/15/08 : BI Initiated

            Arizona Highway Patrol
            08/18/08 : Applied
            10/13/08 : Withdrawn

            Pima County Sheriffs
            10/25/08 : PT Test
            10/25/08 : Written Test
            10/27/08 : Oral Board


            "An Arizona Law Enforcement Hopeful"

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            • #96
              I hope the child made a serious mistake, but only time will tell.

              CrossFit

              RossTraining

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              • #97
                Chit2001, you da man haha
                It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible - George Washington

                They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty - Benjamin Franklin

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                • #98
                  If we feed the starving without doing anything about population control, we'll enable production of more starving people later, and so increase net human suffering when we were trying to reduce it. I think we should produce a grain that reduces reproductivity. As long as you're relying on aid to stay alive, you shouldn't be reproducing and thereby be increasing the size of the problem.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    AHEMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                    Getting back to what the real topic of this thread is....

                    Originally posted by Mrs. Hoppes View Post
                    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,393102,00.html

                    Where are the parents? What would make a child do this?
                    The parents don't exist in this kids life. The kid is going to be a socialpath. This is a trademark incident that real bad people like Manson and Dahmer when they were kids.

                    Although because he is a kid they won't label him a socialpath just yet, so its only called a conduct disorder a this point. He maybe be able to be saved but a JD center is not the place for him. He needs psychiatric help. Read this and you'll understand.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisoc...ality_disorder

                    /And I'm enjoying my chicken burrito as I type this too
                    Last edited by wirefire2; 08-02-2008, 03:22 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by jshawn View Post
                      OUTSTANDING RESPONSE!!!
                      Not really.
                      When talking to a fool, be sure he isn't doing the same.

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                      • "We have to SAVE the kid!!!!!!!!!"

                        JBMX doesn't want to comment here on the sacredness of pigs or something?????
                        Space for rent .........

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                        • ^Sure you're not talking about "JMTX?"

                          If so.... she's on a 10-day vacation..... she'll be back
                          1*

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                          • Originally posted by Monty Ealerman View Post
                            I think humans should adhere to a higher non-cruelty standard than other non-exclusively-herbivore animals. I'm glad to see that you behead the fish before you do the rest. Earlier you discussed scaling a fish before it was killed. Here you discussed killing it first. Killing it first is what I was saying.

                            (the following edited in later)

                            Constrictor snakes suffocate their prey by crushing before they swallow it. Lions kill their prey, generally by stopping the breathing, or by causing bleedout, or by breaking, at the neck, before they eat it. They don't eat it while it's still alive. Mountain lions generally hunt alone, and aren't able to take elk. Elk are more vulnerable to a pack of wolves, who also kill before they eat. You're right about spiders. They don't ensure that their insect prey is dead before they drain it. They just trap it with their urinary web fluid and commence. But insects aren't mammals, and are not capable of anywhere near as much suffering as higher animals, even fishes, are capable of.
                            To be honest, I don't care. Whether I scale the fish and get it's skin off first, or if I cut it's head off and gut it first, the end result is the same, the fish dies, and I eat it.

                            As for my point about the other animals, I wasn't saying that they didn't kill their prey first, I was just saying that they really don't have any concern with the suffering of their prey.

                            btw, sorry to go so far off topic, what the kid did was really frightening and sad.
                            What is Perseverance?
                            -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
                            -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
                            -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


                            BOP - BPA - ICE

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                            • Originally posted by TheKansan View Post

                              As for my point about the other animals, I wasn't saying that they didn't kill their prey first, I was just saying that they really don't have any concern with the suffering of their prey.
                              ...due to a lack of intelligence perhaps?
                              When talking to a fool, be sure he isn't doing the same.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TheKansan
                                To be honest, I don't care. Whether I scale the fish and get it's skin off first, or if I cut it's head off and gut it first, the end result is the same, the fish dies, and I eat it. ...

                                ... I was just saying that they really don't have any concern with the suffering of their prey.
                                Yeah, dead is dead, but killing animals first is more humane. The end result isn't the same, because less suffering occurs if you kill the animal first. The fact that other animals aren't humane doesn't mean we shouldn't be.

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