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  • What do you think...

    Thought I'd bring out another story to see what the real LEO's think, today we had a fight in a dayroom, now of course I responded, got into the room, began to lock down, of course the inmates don't listen cause they just do whatever the hell they want to do. Now, there's about 32 inmates in this particular dayroom and about 5 of us got there at that time, noone is locked down, inmates everywhere, the Sgt puts out over the radio "All units, slow your response." Slow your response? 32 on 5? slow your response?!" which brings me to exactly why I say that, we see the one "client" who was the perpetrator in the fight and the Sgt tells a deputy "Cuff him", deputy goes to cuff him and the inmate pushes the deputy against the wall! of course I spring into action and grab the guy, next thing I know I have about 7 deputies grabbing ME like I'm the inmate grabbing me by my shirt, grabbing me by the collar of my neck all while I'm still trying to hold this guy on the wall to get him restrained, noone has a hold of this guy whatsoever, I'm reaching over deputies to keep control of this guys hands yellin out "CUFF HIM, SOMEBODY CUFF THIS GUY!" so he doesn't swing on anyone else and I have deputies pushing me back they're yelling out "We got control of him" in the meantime he's turned around 360 looking straight at other deputies.

    So I get called to the carpet, get brought into the Sgt's office and get ripped apart on how I put everyones life in danger and about 3 Sgts and another deputy who stormed into the Sgts office kept saying "I have a family I want to go home to" "I" "I" "I", but they're trying to tell me I need to work as a team...I dont get it...at all! I have a female Sgt tell me "I was trying so hard to close that door and I almost couldn't do it, and everyone knows, I refuse put to my hands on anybody" now like I stated before, I wont talk back to the command staff because I believe in old school mentality of thats the boss, thats the way it is. But at the same time, I'm thinking to myself "Lady, you're not working at wal*mart or selling car insurance...you're working at a jail with maximum security inmates, this is the real deal, you're not outside playing cops and robbers anymore. If you can't handle it, find a new job" I then get told "There's 5 of us in here, but we're not trying to gang up on you, we understand you always have your fellow deputies back and we appreciate that, but if someone is fighting, you need to step back and let them go so you can bring them to us, we can't get them in there own territory" But how do we bring them out while he's assaulting deputies and not handcuffing him? Do we say "Excuse me sir, can you please stop hitting us so we can bring you outside and charge you internally so you can't have canteen but your friends can buy it for you so really you have canteen?"

    Then I hear "we come in here in the morning and they let us have control, we dont have control here" So now I'm thinkin "They dont let me have a damn thing, this is my house and they're gonna do what I tell them to do, when they get released and I'm in their house, it's a different story, but right now if I tell your *** 3-4 times to get to a cell and you don't, it's time for you to get bent up, and the reason why they have control is because you let them have control." Inmates assault deputies here like it's open season and it's the deputies fault for defending themselves or their partner. I told them straight out, I said it before they got there, I'm never gonna stop having my partners back no matter what, they can write me up, send me home, suspend me, whatever they have to do, but no way in hell am I gonna stand back while my partners life is at stake. Our brown is WAY more important to me than their brown. I mean...I hate to ramble if you think I am, I just wanna know for real....am I wrong? am I not seeing it? am I too stupid to not see what they're telling me? or am I right in this and I'm working with a bunch of cowards who are a disgrace to real LE? Then before I leave I heard the only one deputy I have left that I can actually trust say "Slow your response....I thought I was walkin into something like on LOCKUP...mother****ers everywhere!"
    Last edited by DeputyG810; 07-29-2008, 09:07 PM.
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  • #2
    please break your post up into paragraphs.

    Nobody wants to read a big block of type. You might have something interesting to say but few will bother.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

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    • #3
      Sounds to me like they thought you were a little too gung-ho. Yea, you gotta have your buddies back, but at the same time, you dont wanna start a riot.

      The way it was explained to me, at a low-medium prison, was that the inmates could take the prison if they really wanted to. You gotta earn their respect... be the jailer they like and respect, but at the same time keep them under control. Its hard to do, but if youre the [email protected], youre gonna cause yourself a lot of problems with the inmates.
      "...and the taking of a life is murder. And the punishment for murder is.... well it varies from state to state and by race, but...." - Homer J Simpson.

      Police: "Stop and we'll shoot!"
      Dilbert: "Stop AND we'll shoot? If you're gonna shoot, why should we stop?"
      Police: "Well, it would be alot easier for us. The targets at the shooting range don't run."

      R.I.P. Momma Coleman. You may have left our world, but you have NOT left our hearts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sharp View Post
        Sounds to me like they thought you were a little too gung-ho. Yea, you gotta have your buddies back, but at the same time, you dont wanna start a riot.
        I understand what you're saying, but once someone puts their hands on a deputy or an officer, to me, there's nothing less than "gung-ho". I have a good report with them besides the times they want to show off in front of their buddies. There's lots of them that say "Hey, ask G, he's good, he'll actually help you out" but once they wanna show off they're gonna do what they want to do. It's almost like, they know I don't play games so they try to test me to see if because I have that report with them, that I'll let it slide and when I dont, I get called out on it....right infront of them most of the time too. Hell, I'm only about 5 ' 8 and I was dragging this guy down the hallway once who was about 6 ' 4 and walked right by 2 deputies and a Sgt who is now a Lt. and they just watched me struggle as I went by because they're afraid of being called up front.
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        • #5
          haha, you're kidding me right? when I went through the academy we did our chemical portion of the academy and before they set off the CS and stuff the instructor said "I hope all this stuff still works, it's so old." and that came from our live warehouse where if something happened, thats where we'd get our "emergency equipment" thats how the sheriff wants it, might as well give the inmates the badge and gun, we're only a half step away from that point now.
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          • #6
            Your in a tough situation and one that sounds all to familiar to myself. I used to be the gung-ho, take no prisoners, you touch my partner I will handle you with serious violence of action type of guy.

            I wised up pretty damn fast and the reality of it is that you have to walk, talk and act like your employers want you to. Granted I have never worked for DOC facility but you have to adapt your personality to fit that of your co-workers while mainting officer safety......I know easier said than done.

            In your situation why most would say you were right in your actions, think about how there were five officers in the Sgt.'s office and all of them were concerned about you and your actions.

            It's a damned if you damned if you don't environment, you could bring this up to your supervisor and try to get there input about how they expect things to be done in the future.

            CrossFit

            RossTraining

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DeputyG810 View Post
              I understand what you're saying, but once someone puts their hands on a deputy or an officer, to me, there's nothing less than "gung-ho". I have a good report with them besides the times they want to show off in front of their buddies. There's lots of them that say "Hey, ask G, he's good, he'll actually help you out" but once they wanna show off they're gonna do what they want to do. It's almost like, they know I don't play games so they try to test me to see if because I have that report with them, that I'll let it slide and when I dont, I get called out on it....right infront of them most of the time too. Hell, I'm only about 5 ' 8 and I was dragging this guy down the hallway once who was about 6 ' 4 and walked right by 2 deputies and a Sgt who is now a Lt. and they just watched me struggle as I went by because they're afraid of being called up front.
              To me, it sounds like your actions are gonna get you in a heap of trouble one of these days.... I understand you want order in your hallways and all, but all you have to do is tick off the wrong guy, and youre toast. I suggest going and talking to your supervisors....ask them to explain what they want you to do, and follow it.

              Remember, theyre your SUPERVISORS....theyve been there longer, and they know how the game is played. Listen to their advice.
              "...and the taking of a life is murder. And the punishment for murder is.... well it varies from state to state and by race, but...." - Homer J Simpson.

              Police: "Stop and we'll shoot!"
              Dilbert: "Stop AND we'll shoot? If you're gonna shoot, why should we stop?"
              Police: "Well, it would be alot easier for us. The targets at the shooting range don't run."

              R.I.P. Momma Coleman. You may have left our world, but you have NOT left our hearts.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sharp View Post
                To me, it sounds like your actions are gonna get you in a heap of trouble one of these days.... I understand you want order in your hallways and all, but all you have to do is tick off the wrong guy, and youre toast. I suggest going and talking to your supervisors....ask them to explain what they want you to do, and follow it.

                Remember, theyre your SUPERVISORS....theyve been there longer, and they know how the game is played. Listen to their advice.
                This individual also put his hands on my direct Sgt, known to be hostile and violent and refused a direct order while being locked down and threw a chair...you dont think my actions of bringing him out were correct? and will constitute me getting into trouble? and it was ok to have these other deputies and a Sgt just watch me go on by? The Sgt at the time didn't say anything until our former shift Lt. asked her "Why was he escorting by himself?" So I should just leave him in there and let him continue to do these things because thats what the supervisors want? Now if something happened and this individual hurts somebody, it's going to come back on me as to why I didn't do anything to stop him and allowed him to hurt a deputy or god forbid one of the other inmates and when asked why, I would say "Thats the way the supervisors want it." to which of course they would state "That's not true."

                And as you said, I want order in my hallways, yes...if I dont have order, I have chaos...which is pretty much what it is.
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                • #9
                  I'll be danged if something like that were to happen in my facility. Granted I don't work in the jail anymore, but I have direct contact with the deputies and supervisors and read their reports. If a fight starts in a housing unit then it is all hands on deck.. no questions asked. The inmates are locked down immediately, which they usually agree to as they don't want to get into trouble, and the fighting inmates are easily separated or oc sprayed (foamed really so the oc doesn't get into the air system) and separated.

                  We have a direct supervision facility and the inmates know that we won't take their crap. And I also have a problem with your supervisors not backing you up. Wouldn't happen around here... Unfortuantely sounds like you need to start looking elsewhere unless you want to live by their rules and potentially get hurt in the future.

                  And even though it would be easier to read more broken up.. I could still read it just fine.. =)

                  Also..for what it's worth.. most of your responses were from civilians, not leo's. just my .02
                  Last edited by dixiebelle; 07-30-2008, 04:44 PM. Reason: added something

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DeputyG810 View Post
                    This individual also put his hands on my direct Sgt, known to be hostile and violent and refused a direct order while being locked down and threw a chair...you dont think my actions of bringing him out were correct? and will constitute me getting into trouble? and it was ok to have these other deputies and a Sgt just watch me go on by? The Sgt at the time didn't say anything until our former shift Lt. asked her "Why was he escorting by himself?" So I should just leave him in there and let him continue to do these things because thats what the supervisors want? Now if something happened and this individual hurts somebody, it's going to come back on me as to why I didn't do anything to stop him and allowed him to hurt a deputy or god forbid one of the other inmates and when asked why, I would say "Thats the way the supervisors want it." to which of course they would state "That's not true."

                    And as you said, I want order in my hallways, yes...if I dont have order, I have chaos...which is pretty much what it is.
                    What is your department/facility POLICY on use of force? No matter what you think should be done in any particular situation..........your response should be policy driven.
                    My guess is, since at least 3 Sgt's were as you said "ripping you apart" you were not doing things they way you are supposed to!

                    From reading your post and your profile I would guess that you are a member of a fairly large SO and work as a detention deputy. I know from experience that due to accreditaion............you have polices on EVERYTHING that happens in your jail.................and that you also have procedures to follow that dictate the exact way things should be done

                    I don't think I would like to work in the environment you describe..........but I wasn't there, I haven't read your policies, and quite frankly I haven't heard both sides of the story
                    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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                    • #11
                      How frustrating!!!

                      At our jail, being told to lockdown means just that. Those who refuse will be dealt with accordingly. Shove an officer? That is carte blanch for an old fashion arse whooping. And you were stopped by your peers???

                      To slow down the response?? I don't care if it took everyone from the facility....keep coming until the situation is handled...meaning everyone is locked down.

                      We show up with big bertha (OC) / the hats and bats...they tend to run like roaches. Sure there is always one cell soldier.....snatch and reassigned to another housing unit. Oh our ratio is 300+ to 1.


                      Then you are called to the carpet? Peers run in and whine???? It's time to look for another place to work. What happens if you are getting your arse beat??? Sounds like your coworkers don't want to get hurt or go against admin...SO BASICALLY you're on your own.

                      This is OUR house...and you will abide by OUR rules or suffer the consequences. They have to know who is running the place...and if they are running it....see ya!

                      Re: policy on force? You can use enough force to control the situation..so if you have to fight someone to handcuff them..so be it. But to not react to an inmate who just assaulted a deputy is stupid. Just my 2 cents.
                      Last edited by deputy x 2; 07-30-2008, 05:39 PM.
                      This profession is not for people looking for positive reinforcement from the public. Very often it can be a thankless job and you can't desire accolades, because those are not usually forthcoming. Just do your job to the best of your ability and live with the decisions you've made.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by deputy x 2 View Post
                        How frustrating!!!

                        At our jail, being told to lockdown means just that. Those who refuse will be dealt with accordingly. Shove an officer? That is carte blanch for an old fashion arse whooping. And you were stopped by your peers???

                        To slow down the response?? I don't care if it took everyone from the facility....keep coming until the situation is handled...meaning everyone is locked down.

                        We show up with big bertha (OC) / the hats and bats...they tend to run like roaches. Sure there is always one cell soldier.....snatch and reassigned to another housing unit. Oh our ratio is 300+ to 1.


                        Then you are called to the carpet? Peers run in and whine???? It's time to look for another place to work. What happens if you are getting your arse beat??? Sounds like your coworkers don't want to get hurt or go against admin...SO BASICALLY you're on your own.

                        This is OUR house...and you will abide by OUR rules or suffer the consequences. They have to know who is running the place...and if they are running it....see ya!

                        Re: policy on force? You can use enough force to control the situation..so if you have to fight someone to handcuff them..so be it. But to not react to an inmate who just assaulted a deputy is stupid. Just my 2 cents.
                        I don't disagree with anything you have said-------------------
                        But the point I was trying to make is........A deputy with 2 yrs on is NOT going to change the way things are done in a jail.

                        I think it is a dangerous place to be working and I would be gone. BUT if he decides to stay where he is at------------------------he needs to get used to the way they do it at his house......well, his administrations house.
                        Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                          I don't disagree with anything you have said-------------------
                          But the point I was trying to make is........A deputy with 2 yrs on is NOT going to change the way things are done in a jail.

                          I think it is a dangerous place to be working and I would be gone. BUT if he decides to stay where he is at------------------------he needs to get used to the way they do it at his house......well, his administrations house.
                          You are absolutely right.

                          Hey DeputyG810...come to Cali!!!
                          Last edited by deputy x 2; 07-30-2008, 06:17 PM.
                          This profession is not for people looking for positive reinforcement from the public. Very often it can be a thankless job and you can't desire accolades, because those are not usually forthcoming. Just do your job to the best of your ability and live with the decisions you've made.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Iowa, you are correct, it is an ACA (american correctional association) standard that we have paperwork and policies on everything, what it boils down to is "Use the minimum amount of force necessary" but if it jumps from officer presence to chemical just like that, than so be it, I wont go against policy, I'm not gonna just spray someone for arguing with me as has happened once before that I know of. But so many people are afraid of being called up frontm that they cower and let them take control. It's also in our addendum that "Any act of cowardice" could result in disciplinary action including or up to termination. But, I think that just to make the paperwork look good.

                            I am trying to leave this place but it's hard, alot of stories that dont belong on a public forum happen. and I know I only have 2 years, I know it's not gonna change anything cause there's people there who've been there 20-30 years with rank who can't change anything, it's just the way the big dog wants it, is the way it's going to be. I'm just sick of being called to the carpet for doing whats right, a deputy is going to end up getting killed or seriously, seriously hurt here. It's gone as far as we once got a new deputy and he told the inmates to step to their cells, the pod king stood up and said "Obviously you're new here, so let me let you in on how it works...you work for us, we dont listen to you, if we want to go, we'll go, if not, then we wont" and that is pretty much how it is.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DeputyG810 View Post
                              It's gone as far as we once got a new deputy and he told the inmates to step to their cells, the pod king stood up and said "Obviously you're new here, so let me let you in on how it works...you work for us, we dont listen to you, if we want to go, we'll go, if not, then we wont" and that is pretty much how it is.
                              Do you guys have a classification unit? The pod king would be immediately removed, reassigned and written up. (Interfering with the proper running of the facility*) If your dept is allowing this type of behavior then shame on them.

                              Loss of time, loss of privileges (canteen & visits) and perhaps the Disciplinary Isolation and the dreaded loaf. As long as you give them minimum jail standards....they don't have anything else coming. They don't like it???Don't come to jail.
                              This profession is not for people looking for positive reinforcement from the public. Very often it can be a thankless job and you can't desire accolades, because those are not usually forthcoming. Just do your job to the best of your ability and live with the decisions you've made.

                              Comment

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