Question for you weight lifters.

[MadMax]

We all know that an Olympic bar weighs 45lbs. How much is its' weight, when used on the Smith machine?

[ateamer]

Please, please, NEVER use a Smith machine. That abomination is probably the single worst piece of exercise equipment ever devised! It forces you to adapt to its plane of motion. Use the Smith machine long enough and when you switch to a bar just say goodbye to your rotator cuffs. All the support muscles will be weakened because the rails stabilize and guide the bar.

I have been training for 21 years and powerlifting competitively for seven and have never used a Smith machine. I also have never been injured in the gym or at a meet.

Machines are the answer to a question no one asked.

[ 01-22-2003, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: ateamer ]

[MadMax]

Ateamer,
Thanx for the heads up. I have recently started using the Smith machine and have noticed the difference in regards to the support muscles. Unfortunatley, I got into the habit of using the Smith machine, due to the lack of decent spotters.

[ateamer]

Max, does your gym have a power rack? If so, that can be a decent substitute for spotters. When benching, set the pins (safety bars) so that they are just barely above your chest. If you get stuck, drop the bar on the pins, flatten your chest out and slide out from underneath. You can do the same for squats and other movements.

[Oink]

Oooo....I would like to have a self-spotting bench but nooo... I'm taking my chances!!!

Last I heard you just need to keep calm, You can always rest the weight on your chest (I mean a little bit, Not enough to hurt but enough to rest your muscles) for 10-20 seconds, Then you can get it back up there...Hopefully.

[MadMax]

Ateamer,
Yes, my gym has two power racks. Duh, I never even thought about using em for my bench, I do use em for my shrugs. Again thanx for the advice.

Oink,
I think that that would be a good way to blow your o'ring, especially if you are doing negatives.

[JRT6]

There is nothing wrong with the Smith machine when used properly like any other equipment. Obviously one shouldn't use it when natural arc of motion is critical but for other stuff it's works just fine. We have two in my gym one counter balances a lot and I would guess it weighs about twenty pounds while other one dosen't and I count it as fortyfive. It's all symantics anyway. Just count the weight you put on the bar, your body only knows what the true weight is not the value you assigned to it.

FWIW I'm currently using the smith for shrugs, close grip bench(partial reps), and roman deadlift.

[MadMax]

What is your routine? Mine goes like this

Chest/Shoulder day.
Chest
Bench Press.
Incline Press, Barbell or Dumbbells.
Decline Press, Barbell or Dumbbells.
Flys.

Shoulders
Military Press, Barbell or Dumbbells
Shrugs, Barbell or Dumbbells
Upright rows
Dumbbell Lat Shoulder raise.

Back/Biceps day.
Back
Wide grip pull ups.
Lat Pull down.
Reverse grip bent over row.
Pull overs.
Deltoid raise.

Biceps
Straight bar curl, using pins on power rack to stop my upward movement at chest level hold for 5 sec.
Hammer curl, Bar or Dumbbell.
Seated incline curl.
Reverse grip curl.

Legs/Tricep day
Legs
Leg press
Hack squat...Plate loaded mach.
Leg extension,
Leg curls,
Calf raises.

Triceps
Close grip bench.
French press
Dumbbell Tri Extension.
Cable press down.
Dips.

I usually work out 1 1/2 - 2 hours, 3-5 times a week depending on my work schedule. . For cardio I run 1/2 - 1 mile befor each workout, I have been slacking on the cardio latley.

[JRT6]

Max,

Your probably mad because your doing way too much volume.

If your stagnent or wanna be more effective you need to keep your lifting to fortyfive minutes and under. Any longer and your testosterone level nose dives which makes anything after that a waste of time.

Do your cardio after you lift, you burn all your carbs off doing cardio and you need them for the weights. Better yet do cardio on a different day or time.

You grow when you rest not when you work out. There's a debate about whether two or three sets a needed for an exercise. Rest assured anything more than three sets an exercise and your beating a dead horse. Same with too many excersises assuming your lifting hard.

Here's my sample work out. It changes constantly as I drop exercises that become stagnent and pick them up again later on.

Day one: Chest
1. Bench
2. Incline Bench
3. Pec dec
4. abs

Day two: off

Day three: Lats
1. Front pull ups with weight
2. Back pull upos with weight
3. neutral grip rows

Day four: off

Day five: Shoulders & arms
1. Dumbell bench
2. curl/dumbell curl giant sets
3. pushdowns/ skull crushers with neutal grip
4. Concentration curl
5. Closegrip/dips with weight
6. Side laterals on incline bench

Day six: off

Day seven: Legs
1. Cybex leg sled one leg at a time
2. Regular leg press one leg at a time
3. Leg curls
4. Romanian deadlift
5. calves

Day eight: off

I have about twenty more exercises that I can do when I get stale or tendonitis.

Cardio is three to four days a week running and biking. I train for a good twelve minute run and a good leg kick for foot pursuits. I take my running realisticly as I weigh 240lbs. My current twelve minute run with a one degree incline on the treadmill to simulate road running is about 1.70 miles in my target heart range of 80 to 85%. When I get to 1.77 miles I'm going to cut back to alternating running two days and three days a week.

[MadMax]

JKT,
The reason why I tend to workout for that length of time,is due to my resting between sets, approx. 4 min. I do that with the larger muscle groups. The smaller ones I rest approx. 2 min.
I was under the impression that cardio should be done prior to weight lifting, so as to get the blood flowing...

PS. I am because it makes me !!!

[JKT]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MadMax:
JKT,
The reason why I tend to workout for that length of time,is due to my resting between sets, approx. 4 min. I do that with the larger muscle groups. The smaller ones I rest approx. 2 min.
I was under the impression that cardio should be done prior to weight lifting, so as to get the blood flowing...

PS. I am because it makes me !!!

---

[JRT6]

Differing opinions on whether about foru minutes rest. Yes you'll lift more the next set because of ATP resupply but your also limiting your hormone response.

I go two minutes on everything. Do less sets and exercises and you'll do ok on four minutes. Trust me; go hard for less volume and losts of rest days and you'll do better. Vary your reps too. When low reps get sagnent then go higher for awhile then back down. Allways change.

Cardio of a warm-up is good when you do five to ten minutes in the 60% MHR zone. The 120 range. Save the serious cardio for after the workout. I'll sometimes do hard cardio before my leg workout due to arthritis but I do the same workout over and over again so I'm not challenging my body.

[ateamer]

This workout won't be applicable to anyone here who isn't interested in maximizing strength, but here goes:

Monday: Bench Press Maximum Effort
-Warmup with bench press
-One exercise similar to bench (close grip lockouts in the rack, close grip half-reps) for a max single (works the bench lockout, which is my weak point)
-Triceps extensions, dumbbell military presses and abs - for at least eight reps, up to four or five sets of each exercise.

Tuesday: Squat/Deadlift Max Effort
-Warmup with squat
-Squat assistance exercise done like the bench assistance - Good Mornings, Box squat on a high box, occasionally deadlift - for a max single or max triple
-Hamstring, lower back, lat and ab work

-Thursday: Bench Dynamic Effort
-Bench - 5-8 sets of doubles or triples, done as quickly as possible, with 50-65% of max
-Triceps, shoulders, abs done as on Monday

Saturday: Squat Dynamic Effort
-Box squats (sitting back onto a below-parallel box, relaxing the hips, squatting the weight back up)for 6-10 sets of doubles, done as quickly as possible
-Hams, lower back, lats and abs.

The dynamic workouts take no more than 50 minutes. Max effort takes longer because of longer rests between sets.

Unorthodox system developed by Louie Simmons of Westside Barbell in Columbus, OH. This is a very brief summary. It is very effective; Louie has over 20 lifters who squat over 800. I just switched to this system after progressive overload was making my lifts falter. My lifts are going back up, my recovery time is much quicker and the aches and pains are gone.

www.elitefts.com for more info. The website is being rebuilt, so the articles may not be back up.

[ 01-29-2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: ateamer ]