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  • Guns on campus

    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/04/14/campus.guns/

    Intersting article. I think they should be allowed to. If I was a criminal, with the plan to shoot up a school, I may think twice about it before going through with it. Then agian, I may also be looking to kill myself or be killed during the process. I dont know. What do you all think?
    The Red, Bold, Italic is my official sarcasm tag.



    "I think many years ago an advanced civilization intervened with us genetically and gave us just enough intelligence to develop dangerous technology but not enough to use it wisely. Then they sat back to watch the fun. Kind of like a human zoo. And you know what? They're getting their money's worth"
    George Carlin

  • #2
    From the article

    ""I don't think the answer to bullets flying is to send more bullets flying," said Gene Ferrara, the police chief at the University of Cincinnati. "My belief is we ought to be focusing on what we do to prevent the shooting from starting."

    Ferrara was a Cincinnati cop for more than a dozen years before he became chief of police at the university. He also said that there are practical concerns from a law enforcement perspective: If you're responding to the scene of a shooting, how do you sort out who is the bad guy and who is the heroic student with a permit?

    "The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said."

    This police chief is a moron. He shoots everyone with a gun that doesn't have a uniform on? What about plain clothes officers? What about standard tactics? He would just burst in and start shooting without announcing himself?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Maddogg123 View Post
      From the article

      ""I don't think the answer to bullets flying is to send more bullets flying," said Gene Ferrara, the police chief at the University of Cincinnati. "My belief is we ought to be focusing on what we do to prevent the shooting from starting."

      Ferrara was a Cincinnati cop for more than a dozen years before he became chief of police at the university. He also said that there are practical concerns from a law enforcement perspective: If you're responding to the scene of a shooting, how do you sort out who is the bad guy and who is the heroic student with a permit?

      "The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said."

      This police chief is a moron. He shoots everyone with a gun that doesn't have a uniform on? What about plain clothes officers? What about standard tactics? He would just burst in and start shooting without announcing himself?
      ditto, he sounds like a dumb *** who is trigger happy. Thats where we get a bad image
      Why do we try so Hard for Little things, and so Little for Hard things?

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      • #4
        interesting article

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        • #5
          I think I'll be joining that group. people who argue against guns on campus dont have much of an argument. the best argument, yet still weak, is about shootings at parties over stupid things. my question is, what's to say they wouldnt have just gotten a knife or a baseball bat if they couldnt have a gun? none of their arguments have any stats to back them up, however it's been proven that strict gun legislation leads to more crime.

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          • #6
            I would think a lot of students are already worried about being shot, in light of all the campus shootings happening lately.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BikeCop501 View Post
              ditto, he sounds like a dumb *** who is trigger happy. Thats where we get a bad image
              Sorry, I am not getting that at all. What I get from it is the genuine concern that an innocent person may be killed by a cop in error, which would be tragic.

              I am surprised by the cavalier attitude towards CCW on this forum. I myself think it is irresponsible to open fire even if my own life was at risk. Why? The possibility that a stray bullet could kill an innocent bystander. Sorry if it sounds too PC.

              Comment


              • #8
                i don't get it..any responsible CCW carrier who would somehow be forced to use his weapon will either secure it or put it on the ground as soon as possible after the threat is removed, and will comply with the first officers on scene demands, whatever they may be..if some CCW carrier refuses to comply with an officers demands etc..he is then considered a unknown threat IMO...and runs the risk of getting dropped himself..

                and wtf does joining the army have to do with CCW on campus?? Farewell??
                Last edited by Mstangfk; 04-15-2008, 01:15 PM.
                In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete drawn only to be washed away, for the time that I've been given, I am what I am. I'd rather you hate me for everything I am, Than have you love me for being something that Im not

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mstangfk View Post
                  i don't get it..any responsible CCW carrier who would somehow be forced to use his weapon will either secure it or put it on the ground as soon as possible after the threat is removed, and will comply with the first officers on scene demands, whatever they may be..if some CCW carrier refuses to comply with an officers demands etc..he is then considered a unknown threat IMO...and runs the risk of getting dropped himself..

                  and wtf does joining the army have to do with CCW on campus?? Farewell??
                  I was thinking the same thing, but couldnt come up with the words at the time.

                  as for bigislander, you would be afraid to shoot at an active shooter because you would be afraid on hitting an innocent? so you would hesitate with that thought while the shooter goes on and kills you and who knows how many others? just think if the police thought that way what if the off-duty officer in the utah mall shooting had thought that way

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by farewelltonavy
                    and wtf does joining the army have to do with CCW on campus?? Farewell??
                    it suggested that these college kids are looking for something more that just expanding their knowledge on campus; they want to carry guns too and be always prepared because the bad guy might get them at any moment. So I suggested the army, since they will get to carry weapons at all times, shoot them, shoot bad guys and get their college paid for free.[/QUOTE]

                    ok seriously..

                    How does serving in the military keep you safe in public or at a college campus, its not like they had out the Rifles and grenades when you join and you get to run around with them...the Army and other branches only hands out he weapons for training, maintenance or when its time to go to war..


                    i personally would like to be armed at school, not so much where i take classes, because the instructors are all police etc.. but on the main campus where the school security guards are 350 lb unarmed golf cart drivers who couldnt secure a box of donuts without assistance..

                    i can carry anywhere else that doesnt prohibit firearms, its a bit silly to restrict concealed carry in the very place that is the best target for a bad guy, such as a school, bank, store etc..

                    In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete drawn only to be washed away, for the time that I've been given, I am what I am. I'd rather you hate me for everything I am, Than have you love me for being something that Im not

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by IAmJeff View Post
                      I was thinking the same thing, but couldnt come up with the words at the time.

                      as for bigislander, you would be afraid to shoot at an active shooter because you would be afraid on hitting an innocent? so you would hesitate with that thought while the shooter goes on and kills you and who knows how many others? just think if the police thought that way what if the off-duty officer in the utah mall shooting had thought that way
                      I believe both the campus chief's words (and bigislanders) are being taken out of context.

                      Looking at this from an administrative point of view, do you all think that a bunch of gun-toting students are the answer to the problem? I remember my undergrad days and believe me, there are a bunch of 21 yr olds that have no business carrying weapons. The maturity level is just not there. I am not implying that this is the only age group there, but if you allow weapons on campus, then the law cannot restrict some, and ignore others. Although there may be some (or moreso a few) very responsible permit holders on campus grounds, like many other things, it would just take a couple of random dumba**es to make this sort of legislation backfire in the faces of the law makers. If an active shooter situation occurs, what exactly do you think these students should do if they are not immediately near the shooter? Seek out and actively engage him? What type of training do permit holders have with this? I will tell you..NONE. If I am one of the first patrol officers on scene, or even with the tactical unit, I do not want to have to play the guessing game with a bunch of armed kids. It means I will have to give verbal commands to every person I see with a weapon to confirm that they are not the one doing the shooting. Tactically where does that put me? I will tell you, if it is the shooter, he gets the first shot because I'm too worried about ending the life of an innocent (permit holder). I would like to say it will be easy to pick out the shooter because he will be the one shooting, but there is a chance he will not be shooting when we arrive.

                      It's pretty easy for some of you, especially non-leo's to come on here and monday morning quarterback this issue, but most of you have never been in an active shooter situation. I have not either, and I don't claim to be an expert in the subject, but personally, allowing a bunch of folks on campus with weapons is not the solution, it becomes part of the problem (at least in my eyes as a LEO).

                      The perfect scenario is for a permit-holder to be able to stop the threat immediately prior to law enforcement's arrival and save a bunch of lives. But in reality, there will be very few folks on campus carrying a weapon and I believe they will attempt to play cop and engage the shooter across the campus. This leads to (1) making themselves a possible victim and (2) harder for law enforcement to do their job.

                      There will be those that disagree with me, and that's fine, but I suggest you do not attempt to bash other LEOs, especially in the upper ranks. They have been in LE a long time and may have some good opinions on the subject. Honestly whether a Chief or a patrol officer, any LEO's concern is taking the life of an innocent victim. In my opinion, his and bigislanders statements were not at all out of context.

                      I don't believe either one of them were implying that they would not engage an active shooter. I think it is a simple statement that says a bunch of gun-toting permit holders on campus would make LE's job more difficult in the long run.
                      Last edited by SgtScott31; 04-15-2008, 03:54 PM.
                      I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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                      • #12
                        "The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said."

                        Did he ever hear of assessing the situation. Find out who the damn threat is and then react.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IAmJeff View Post
                          I was thinking the same thing, but couldnt come up with the words at the time.

                          as for bigislander, you would be afraid to shoot at an active shooter because you would be afraid on hitting an innocent? so you would hesitate with that thought while the shooter goes on and kills you and who knows how many others? just think if the police thought that way what if the off-duty officer in the utah mall shooting had thought that way
                          Possibly not in that extreme scenario. In that case if many others could be harmed, then yes. But as far as unloading on someone who is say, burglarizing my house or something, I would be very hesitant to shoot for that very reason.

                          The police are much better trained than your average CCW carrier as SgtScott31 pointed out.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bigislander72 View Post
                            Possibly not in that extreme scenario. In that case if many others could be harmed, then yes. But as far as unloading on someone who is say, burglarizing my house or something, I would be very hesitant to shoot for that very reason.

                            The police are much better trained than your average CCW carrier as SgtScott31 pointed out.
                            we're talking about ccw on campus in reaction to school shootings and you're talking about people burglarizing your house? and even still, what if the guy comes at you with a knife?

                            take note on how tee. elle. is staying out of this thread...lol.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Maddogg123 View Post
                              From the article

                              ""I don't think the answer to bullets flying is to send more bullets flying," said Gene Ferrara, the police chief at the University of Cincinnati. "My belief is we ought to be focusing on what we do to prevent the shooting from starting."

                              Ferrara was a Cincinnati cop for more than a dozen years before he became chief of police at the university. He also said that there are practical concerns from a law enforcement perspective: If you're responding to the scene of a shooting, how do you sort out who is the bad guy and who is the heroic student with a permit?

                              "The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said."

                              This police chief is a moron. He shoots everyone with a gun that doesn't have a uniform on? What about plain clothes officers? What about standard tactics? He would just burst in and start shooting without announcing himself?
                              seriously.
                              If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

                              "The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

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