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I don't get what's wrong with this.

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  • I don't get what's wrong with this.

    http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?...925-1174096666

    It says Army snipers are being accused of "baiting" insurgents.... ok, so what's the problem?

    WASHINGTON - Army snipers hunting insurgents in Iraq were under orders to "bait" their targets with suspicious materials, such as detonation cords, and then kill whoever picked up the items, according to the defense attorney for a soldier accused of planting evidence on an Iraqi he killed. Gary Myers, an attorney for Sgt. Evan Vela, said his client had acted "pursuant to orders."

    "We believe that our client has done nothing more than he was instructed to do by superiors," Myers said in a telephone interview.

    Myers and Vela's father, Curtis Carnahan of Idaho Falls, Idaho, said in separate interviews that sworn statements and testimony in the cases of two other accused Ranger snipers indicate that the Army has a classified program that encourages snipers to "bait" potential targets and then kill whoever takes the bait.

    The Army on Monday declined to confirm such a program exists.

    "To prevent the enemy from learning about our tactics, techniques and training procedures, we don't discuss specific methods targeting enemy combatants," said Paul Boyce, an Army spokesman.

    Boyce also said there are no classified programs that authorize the murder of Iraqi civilians or the use of "drop weapons" to make killings appeared to be legally justified, which is what Vela and the two other snipers are accused of doing.

    The transcript of a court hearing for two of the three accused snipers makes several references to the existence of a classified "baiting" program but provides few details of how it works. A copy of the transcript was provided to The Associated Press by Vela's father.

    The Washington Post, which first reported the existence of the "baiting" program, cited the sworn statement of Capt. Matthew P. Didier, the leader of a Ranger sniper scout platoon.

    "Baiting is putting an object out there that we know they will use, with the intention of destroying the enemy," Didier said in the statement. "Basically, we would put an item out there and watch it. If someone found the item, picked it up and attempted to leave with the item, we would engage the individual as I saw this as a sign they would use the item against U.S. forces."

    The Post said the program was devised by the Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group, which advises commanders on more effective methods in today's unconventional conflicts, including ways to combat roadside bombs.

    Within months of the "baiting" program's introduction, three snipers in Didier's platoon were charged with murder for allegedly using those items and others to make shootings seem legitimate, according to the Post.

    The Post said that although it doesn't appear that the three alleged shootings were specifically part of the classified program, defense attorneys argue that the program may have encouraged them by blurring the legal lines in a complex war zone.

    The court martial of one of the accused soldiers, Spec. Jorge Sandoval Jr., is scheduled to begin in Baghdad on Wednesday. Also facing premeditated murder charges are Vela and Staff Sgt. Michael Hensley.

    They are part of the Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, based at Fort Richardson, Alaska.

  • #2
    Shhh! No hablar Iraqi!
    Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

    [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

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    • #3
      Yeah, I saw this earlier on yahoo news. I don't see a problem with it either. What happened to the old saying : "All is fair in love and war."? Hell they bomb our guys with IEDs while simultaneously taking out dozens if not hundreds of civilians. And that's not murder? But our guys take out a BG picking bomb-making materials to use against coalition forces with one precision shot and it's murder.

      I still think the media should be kept out of combat zones. If that were the case this war would most likely already be over.

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      • #4
        What is the best bait for lawyers and reporters?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ReportRanger View Post
          What is the best bait for lawyers and reporters?
          A suitcase of money and a spotlight on them .

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DinoTX View Post
            I still think the media should be kept out of combat zones. If that were the case this war would most likely already be over.
            +1.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't see a problem with it, but I see the other sides point, they are saying a curious person who is a non insurgent could pick the item up and end up being killed over it. But on the other hand how d the snipers know that these people aren't bringing these items to help the insurgents.

              I feel nothing but RECOIL for these people

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DinoTX View Post
                I still think the media should be kept out of combat zones. If that were the case this war would most likely already be over.
                VERY true...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by IndySiren View Post
                  VERY true...
                  Ditto.

                  Who said the press could issue surveys to the public about WAR tactics?


                  Hey, why don't we do a poll every time we are attacked about whether the soldiers should return fire?? Katie Couric can anchor and announce how we all voted!
                  Last edited by whowhat; 09-25-2007, 06:16 PM.
                  "Speak softly and carry a big stitck; you will go far." Theodore Roosevelt, A West African Proverb

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                  • #10
                    Thanks media! Now we're going to have to change the kind of bait we're using to catch Iraqis. Stink bait, liver, explosives?
                    "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DinoTX View Post
                      I still think the media should be kept out of combat zones. If that were the case this war would most likely already be over.
                      How do come to that conclusion?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                        Thanks media! Now we're going to have to change the kind of bait we're using to catch Iraqis. Stink bait, liver, explosives?
                        It's funny how the media is always blamed for everything. Blame the actual people who made that decision. And it's wasn't the media.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          if it works i dont see a issue.

                          i would never be able to snipe a kid tho.

                          my buddy had to fire a warning shot at a kid and it screwed him up for awhile..
                          The proper drinking of Scotch whisky is more than indulgence: it is a toast to civilization, a tribute to the continuity of culture, a manifesto of man’s determination to use the resources of nature to refresh mind and body and enjoy to the full the senses with which he has been endowed

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by iMarkVideo View Post
                            How do come to that conclusion?
                            From the amount of information that's broadcast worldwide, which may otherwise have been kept secret.
                            summer - winter - work

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              War aint no place for a reporter

                              How do come to that conclusion?

                              The Marine a couple of years back, who allegedly shot and killed an "unarmed" wounded insurgent in a house where minutes earlier was alive with enemy activity and muzzle flashes directed at these Marines. The only reason such a big deal was made about it is because there happened to be a reporter with a video camera embedded with said unit who captured it on video. Now you tell me. I can guarantee that this stuff happens all the time over there, why should he have let him walk, so he could rejoin the ranks of his fighters and kill more Americans. IMO any MAM (Military Aged Male) who is in the vicinity of other enemies (dead or wounded), especially where a very involved firefight just took place, is the enemy and should be killed.

                              There are hundreds of videos by American War fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan showing the enemy getting lit up, some are very graphic, but none of these ever make the news saying some young Soldier or Marine committed murder or any other war crimes. That's because there are no reporters involved to fabricate their own story to report it as such. The reporters over there only report events that support their beliefs, and if some said event doesn't support their beliefs, then they just twist and bend the story to make it look as bad as possible an our heroes over there.

                              The media is the reason this war is so unpopular back in the States. Because they don't want the public to know that most of the troops actually believe in what their fighting and dying for over there, and that they are having much more success than the media gives them credit for.

                              War is ugly. And it is not something that should be shown on family TV sets. There are many secrets withheld by the military for fear that some conniving reporter will get a hold of the information and blow the top off of would-be successful operations. And sometimes, somehow, they get the info anyway and do just that. (see above article)

                              Reporters don't care about the well-being of our troops on the ground, nor the well-being of our country as a whole. All they care about is breaking their next big story, while simultaneously taking fully capable troops off the battlefield and ruining their careers as well as their lives, just to make a buck.

                              We never had any problem winning wars before Vietnam, where the first mainstream combat zone coverage was permitted.

                              Just let our boys do their job, which is to close with and destroy the enemies of our country. It aint a pretty job, and it isn't always fair, but by God they are killing the enemy and gaining the trust and respect of the Iraqi people, and that's all that matters. It's real people, shooting real bullets, shedding real blood, dying real deaths, but it aint no F&$#!%) reality TV show, so keep the pencil pushing liberal media and their cameramen out of there.

                              Murder....Huh!!! Give me a break, it's a F&$#!%) WAR!!!

                              Damn Liberals are what's gonna destroy this country.

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