Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Not Willing? Professional? Really?

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Not Willing? Professional? Really?

    I posted that other thread about being willing to get the education so that I could post this one:

    How many who said, "No, I would not go after the education," called themselves professionals in another thread?

    My point - remember that "Professional" is long for "Professor;" that it means someone considered an expert; partially, from the academic education behind their experience and "practice" of it.

    So, do we still feel law enforcement is a profession, when most on my other thread clearly signalled no desire to master the academic foundation required of one in this society?

    In my simple and feeble mind, a professional "masters" their field in academia first, then, practices and refines it in the field. There are many PhD, and Masters programs in Criminal Science, not to mention law school, so, what do you think now?

    Perhaps "Technician" or "Specialist" or "Journeyman" or "Craftsman" or "Man of Letters" or "Master".......

    But, "Professional?"

    Hmmmmmmmmmm?
    Last edited by 1042 Trooper; 09-07-2007, 12:19 PM.
    The All New
    2013
    BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
    Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
    - M1Garand

    (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)




  • #2
    Continuing education through the course of a career is also essential!!!
    For any command rank, one should have a Masters.
    "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" -George Orwell

    "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing diapers." - Blues Brothers

    Comment


    • #3
      when i was a soldier...i was a professional.

      personally i think professional has less to do with training and education than it is doing the job properly consistently and properly..

      a garbage man can be professional..
      The proper drinking of Scotch whisky is more than indulgence: it is a toast to civilization, a tribute to the continuity of culture, a manifesto of man’s determination to use the resources of nature to refresh mind and body and enjoy to the full the senses with which he has been endowed

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by grumpyirishman View Post
        Continuing education through the course of a career is also essential!!!
        For any command rank, one should have a Masters.
        Agreed. xxxxxxx
        The All New
        2013
        BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
        Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
        - M1Garand

        (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



        Comment


        • #5
          I am friends with a professor who lives on my street. She's my age (39 years old), and works at a local University. The more I talk to here, the more I realize she's never left the school environment. She went to school for so many years,,then basically went directly into the classroom to teach! I'm trying hard to determine where she obtained real world experience. Yet she's considered a professional. Nothing against anyone who does that. Just makes me wonder.
          "Disco's Out, Murder's In" -Man, ain't that the truth!

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't feel that education alone makes you a professional. I think it goes along way but experience and how well you perform at whatever your being called a professional has a big part in it too. Besides, I can't speak for others, but I do have a lot of related education/training in my field. More so than the average college student graduating with a CJ degree. I just don't have the lambs skin to hang on the wall. I also don't need to spend money to have a title. I earned my title with blood, sweat and tears. Just my .02.
            Deputy C. Ashton

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by stangfather View Post
              when i was a soldier...i was a professional.

              personally i think professional has less to do with training and education than it is doing the job properly consistently and properly..

              a garbage man can be professional..
              With all due respect, I would disagree.

              Understand this is to make the point only and not as an insult; a child, can be trained to consistently do something correctly. Most sixth graders can be trained to shoot, march, obey orders, make their bed and memorize general orders.

              While skills and knowledge are impresive, to be a professional (by definition) goes quite far beyond this. A professional (professor) is one extremely well versed not only in "how" to do something, but why, when, where and the theories behind each. Not simply following orders.

              Take a command officer in the military. A general will not only have at the very least, a 4-year degre, most are Master's or PhD holders. As professional soldiers, they can further, teach others these same things with skill and aplumb. They can be referred to for advice, council and opinions by other professionals who, like them, could instantly rip apart any inadaquacy or lack of knowledge.

              I so thank you and am grateful to you for your valor and dedication as a United States Armed Forces member. This, is what that sixth grader could NOT do. A child will run and hide when faced with a difficult choice, an agggressor or something scary. A soldier must be valant and face that danger. Make that call. This takes a man (or woman these days)of purpose, dedication and selflessness. Whereas, a "professional, would want to stop and ponder things for awhile, a line officer--a soldier--must act instantly.

              Professionals, will avoid such moments. We cannot. Please do not equate "professional" with "better." It does not mean that. It just means "more education and foundation and more money." Not better.

              You know me. No one on earth is "better" than a brother behind a badge. We are the "best" as far as I am concerned.

              And so, I would rather be what I was, a peace officer, than a "professional."
              The All New
              2013
              BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
              Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
              - M1Garand

              (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



              Comment


              • #8
                Like many of my former partners, I went into law enforcement knowing full well what my goals were - professional, personal, financial and educational.

                I knew I was not going to make a great deal of money just as an educator knows their financial potential.

                I knew that to be considered a professional in my field I would have to prove myself.

                I attempted in all those years to present a professional image through my contacts with the public, peers and subordinates.

                I have many acquaintances and friends who were or are in the education field and my contacts with them have often brought about comments about my comportment and professionalism. Additionally, many of them have commented favorably about the officers who worked under my supervision.

                All-in-all, I have done my part. I am accepted by my community, my peers and my family as a RETIRED, professional, law enforcement officer.

                It has been a great travel and I am at ease with my decision lo those many years ago.

                I am in hopes that every officer in this forum - active and retired - will feel as fulfilled as I have over their personal sacrifice and choice of career.
                Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

                [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

                Comment


                • #9
                  I know too many people with a JD who are in no way professionals. And there are too many practicing lawyers who are far from professional.

                  As stated in a post above, I have also personally seen many people with four year graduate degrees who never leave the educational environment. Some go right to teaching in the campus they learned at. Many keep campus housing, effectively creating their own educational bubble. And many times, people work a field that had nothing at all to do with what their major was.

                  I suppose it is all on the prospective and has to be judged on a case by case basis.

                  When somebody asks you to act professionally, does it mean that you're incapable because you are not a professional at anything?
                  "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    With all due respect, I would disagree.
                    We agree.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here is a perfect example of why I believe some of these so-called educated professors are way over rated. It's great they have years of education and study under their belt..but all that can mean absolutely nothing if there is no real experience behind the education.

                      This just happened in our county and I am personally involved with the investigation. The media in this case go to "The Experts" in 'gang sociology' where a professor gives an "expert opinion" regarding something they have very limited exposure to. It's obvious this professor has absolutely no real life experience with the dynamics of gang related crime. They've never investigated a gang crime in their life, yet they pass themselves off as experts (because police gang investigators and gang experts are just un-educated knuckle draggers..right?) Of course, I know that gangsters (or at least some) are clever, they are resourceful, and they're not stupid


                      Riverside County, California DA undaunted by ad he calls gang threat

                      01:41 PM MST on Tuesday, August 28, 2007

                      By PHIL PITCHFORD, PAIGE AUSTIN and DAVID OLSON The Press-Enterprise

                      Riverside County District Attorney Rod Pacheco pledged Monday to seek more court injunctions like one he has filed against a Riverside gang that he believes threatened him in a newspaper advertisement over the weekend.

                      Pacheco spoke two days after a yard sale ad appeared in Saturday's editions of The Press-Enterprise listing Pacheco's address and cell phone number and stating that proceeds would benefit the "Rod Pacheco Memorial Fund."

                      Pacheco on Friday had announced that he was seeking a court injunction to limit the ability of East Side Riva gang members to congregate and commit crimes. Pacheco said he thinks the advertisement was an East Side Riva intimidation tactic made in response to his injunction effort.

                      Using the word "memorial" in the ad "raises it to a certain level, a criminal level," Pacheco said Monday after speaking at a luncheon meeting of the Corona Chamber of Commerce. He said his office is investigating the incident as a possible threat against a public official.

                      Making such a threat is a crime that carries a maximum penalty of three years in state prison, the district attorney's office has said. Investigators served a search warrant at the newspaper office Monday morning, but it was not clear what information was obtained.

                      "What better way to put terror in the community than threaten the district attorney?" Pacheco asked in an interview. "When they threaten me, they threaten all of society."

                      Pacheco said he hopes to take similar court action against a gang in the desert by the end of the year, and he specifically identified a Corona gang against which he also would like to pursue an injunction.

                      Gang Expert Has Doubts

                      But Jorja Leap, an associate adjunct professor of social welfare at UCLA and an expert on the psychology of gangs, doubted that a gang member had placed the ad.

                      "They're not interested in being cute and clever," Leap said. "They're interested in being intimidating. It's not a part of the culture to go about things this way."

                      Eddie Chagolla, a former East Side Riva member who now works with gang-intervention programs, said the gang injunction was a political move to add to Pacheco's image. He didn't think the ad was a threat by gang members.

                      "What did Mr. Pacheco think he was going to get, a fruit basket?" Chagolla said. "I don't know who Rod Pacheco thinks he is, but he's not going to use us to play games here."

                      The district attorney's office has taken the lead in the investigation, with the assistance of the Riverside Police Department, Police Chief Russ Leach said.

                      "We still consider it a serious threat and are concerned for the district attorney and his family," Leach said. "The wording in that ad is a very definite death threat and clear signal of intent to commit harm."

                      Riverside police Sgt. Frank Assumma said the ad is another example of how gangs operate through threats and intimidation. He said threats against police officers and witnesses about to testify are common, but this is likely the first threat against the district attorney.

                      "It's a really feeble attempt to again get some kind of respect in the gang community," Assumma said. "It's their way of fighting back by saying they're not intimidated."

                      Search Warrant

                      The district attorney's office served a search warrant at The Press-Enterprise on Monday morning seeking information about the advertisement, according to Ronald R. Redfern, chief executive officer and publisher of The Press-Enterprise Co.

                      The district attorney's office initially requested information about the ad on Saturday, Redfern said. The paper agreed to provide the information only if a search warrant was presented, he said.

                      "We're cooperating to the extent that the warrant required us to," Redfern said.

                      Ed Lasak, vice president/finance and publishing operations of The Press-Enterprise, said the ad was pulled from the paper's Web site Saturday night.

                      Lasak declined to comment on the information sought in the search warrant, referring all questions to the district attorney's office.

                      Linnea Pinchin, director of classified advertising, said the advertisement was placed by telephone. Customers can use credit cards, debit cards and checks to pay by phone, she said. She declined to say which method was used to place the Pacheco ad and when it was placed.

                      Security Escort

                      Pacheco arrived at the luncheon event in Corona flanked by two men who appeared to be plainclothes law enforcement officers. When Pacheco went to the restroom, one of the men escorted him there and back.

                      In the parking lot, two Corona police vehicles were parked near the restaurant's entrance with officers inside.

                      Pacheco said his office is working with a police department in the desert and intends to seek an injunction there by the end of the year. Two other police departments are interested in the program as well, said Pacheco, telling people at the Corona luncheon that he was willing to bring the approach to their city as well.

                      Several people at the luncheon said they were glad that Pacheco is treating the advertisement as a serious threat.

                      "It's spectacular to know we have leaders who have courage and stand up to intimidation," said Jessie Norton, a financial adviser. "What a great role model."

                      Norton said he was surprised to learn that, according to Pacheco, gang members had Pacheco's address and cell phone number. Both were included in the ad.

                      "To me, that's even more disconcerting," Norton said.

                      Others at the luncheon called for more efforts to take on gang violence. Jim Verplancke, a Corona bank manager, said he views the threat against the district attorney as a challenge to the whole community.

                      "The line is drawn in the sand, and you get on one side or the other," he said. "It's time to step up and do something about gangs."

                      Larry Gallegos, a member of the pro-cannabis Patient Advocacy Network, said the injunction has angered some Hispanic residents, who fear how the injunction will be enforced.

                      "I think he is doing a great job with the gangs," Gallegos said. "I'm just concerned with how the injunction will be administered. Is there going to be an increase in racial profiling?"


                      Now,,after this article was printed, we arrested an employee of the Press Enterprise, who worked in the "advertising" and "classified" department of the newspaper.

                      IMG]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c371/gspider/cardwell.jpg[/IMG]

                      This guy is, in fact, associated with the gang in question. He has felony convictions, and prior gang related arrests,,and,,the Press Enterprise employed him. After a search warrant at his residence, we find three guns (including an assault rifle) and more evidence of his gang involvement. Maybe society should listen to the real gang experts. The ones who are out here chasing them down, arresting them, interviewing them, interacting with them on a daily basis, in their inviornment.

                      I guess my point is, being a professor may not be all its cracked to be.
                      "Disco's Out, Murder's In" -Man, ain't that the truth!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...r/cardwell.jpg

                        trying to post his pic
                        "Disco's Out, Murder's In" -Man, ain't that the truth!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Some of you keep implying that just because you have a higher education does not mean you're a good police officer. Nobody every implied that was the case. That has nothing to do with the argument of whether policing is a profession or not. Nothing. Everybody on both sides of this argument KNOWS that a higher education has little to do with whether a person is capable of being a good policeman or not.

                          Maybe you should ask: "Can I still be a good policeman and not be a member of a profession?" The answer is, "Of course you can". Your status as a member of a profession or not has absolutely nothing to do with your success or ability as a policeman. In the context a lot of you are using it in, the "label" of "profession" is nothing more than that: A label.

                          On the other side of the spectrum, I've heard a lot of very unintelligent and uneducated cops say: "You don't have to be booksmart to be a good cop, you just need common sense!" I hated to tell them that it helps if you can write a report that a prosecutor or detective can read, but that's beside the point. They were usually rationalizing the fact that they could only read and write at about a 4th grade level.
                          Last edited by Frank Booth; 09-07-2007, 05:24 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know I spelled environment wrong at the end..it was a typo!
                            "Disco's Out, Murder's In" -Man, ain't that the truth!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 1042 Trooper View Post
                              With all due respect, I would disagree.

                              Understand this is to make the point only and not as an insult; a child, can be trained to consistently do something correctly. Most sixth graders can be trained to shoot, march, obey orders, make their bed and memorize general orders.

                              While skills and knowledge are impressive, to be a professional (by definition) goes quite far beyond this. A professional (professor) is one extremely well versed not only in "how" to do something, but why, when, where and the theories behind each. Not simply following orders.

                              Take a command officer in the military. A general will not only have at the very least, a 4-year degre, most are Master's or PhD holders. As professional soldiers, they can further, teach others these same things with skill and aplumb. They can be referred to for advice, council and opinions by other professionals who, like them, could instantly rip apart any inadaquacy or lack of knowledge.

                              I so thank you and am grateful to you for your valor and dedication as a United States Armed Forces member. This, is what that sixth grader could NOT do. A child will run and hide when faced with a difficult choice, an agggressor or something scary. A soldier must be valant and face that danger. Make that call. This takes a man (or woman these days)of purpose, dedication and selflessness. Whereas, a "professional, would want to stop and ponder things for awhile, a line officer--a soldier--must act instantly.

                              Professionals, will avoid such moments. We cannot. Please do not equate "professional" with "better." It does not mean that. It just means "more education and foundation and more money." Not better.

                              You know me. No one on earth is "better" than a brother behind a badge. We are the "best" as far as I am concerned.

                              And so, I would rather be what I was, a peace officer, than a "professional."


                              i appreciate it Troop..and i love your posts.

                              However, i think people can be "professional" in their field without multiple levels of education, seems like semantics to me..i dunno.

                              everyone knows of people with degrees, MA, BA, PHD or whatever. who cant seem to do their job, whatever jobthat may be?

                              .i personally think its the way a person goes about their job etc.. means more than the simple fact of being formerly educated.

                              I personally am working on a AS in police science, which comes with a LE certification, say i get hired onto a dept, does that make me less of a professional than a person with a BA or MA and the same job?

                              see what i mean?

                              i think it may be a perception thing, people perceive those with advanced education to be professionals in their field...but what if a person is working outside of their field? I personally know a guy with a MBA who is a carpenter, does he cease being a"professional" now? or does he become a Professional at carpentry?

                              Last edited by stangfather; 09-07-2007, 05:34 PM.
                              The proper drinking of Scotch whisky is more than indulgence: it is a toast to civilization, a tribute to the continuity of culture, a manifesto of man’s determination to use the resources of nature to refresh mind and body and enjoy to the full the senses with which he has been endowed

                              Comment

                              MR300x250 Tablet

                              Collapse

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 5866 users online. 411 members and 5455 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 26,947 at 07:36 PM on 12-29-2019.

                              Welcome Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X