How woefully ignorant we are

[Mike Tx]

I think I am fairly well educated on my rights as an American. Once in a while I will initiate a topic of conversation, or respond to a question, concerning our rights.

I can seriously say that I am SHOCKED at the ignorance of ALL the people I have talked to in person about such things. Just today an old friend came into my shop to show me a brand new, unfired Colt Python he had bought. I looked at it and remarked how I would like to have it, and then we got on the topic of Australia.

He said he wanted to move there, and I said he would have to give up his newly accquired Python and most, if not all, of his other guns. "What", he said? Yeah, I said, they have gun control. He then showed me his NAA 22 mag he carries in his pocket. I said I didn't know you had a permit. He said, "Huh?"

Most people I talk to are totally ignorant of rights. It is tragically alarming that we are this ignorant in this country. My god this hurts me.

[Mike Tx]

Just in case someone misunderstands this, this is not about guns.

[InSane1]

was it about the fact he was carrying without a permit? and you didn't even know .... like... who else is carrying without a permit, and how would we even know?

[Mike Tx]

No, it was about how ignorant we are about our rights.

[Don]

DOG GONE IT! Once again, I have to agree with you Mike! Only I don't believe the ignorance stops at what our rights are. Just look at the number of University Grads that haven't a clue as to the simplest of things such as spelling and the use of grammer. I am afraid that we (as a nation) are on a learning curve that is all DOWNHILL!

Frankly, it scares the hell out of me when I think about my grandkids and their eventual grandkids.

[Watchman]

Just what exactly do you expect from those that have been schooled by the public education system ?

Of course they dont know their rights...they have never been taught any. What they do know is that are they are "entitled" to all sorts of government benefits.

They actually beleive that "separation of church and state" is in the Constitution...those that are aware of the Constitution , that is...

They believe that is is the obligation of all Americans to live as "global citizens" and do our fair share to help mother earth.

Downward learning curve ? Sheeeeeitttt.

We have college grads that cant read or spell worth a dang.
They think guns are responsible for crime. They've been taught that it is against the law to mention God or pray in public. They have been taught that to call something "wrong" is "judgemental" and in some cases biggoted. They have been taught that there are no absolutes. Things that we would have never even considered doing as kids they dont give a second thought to. They are taught that to prefer the opposite sex is "natural" and if they question it, they were "born" that way.

Most of them come from divorced parents. They grew up with only a mom or a dad, in many cases they have several of each.

What we are raising is a generation that beleives that the government is the answer to all problems. That it is OK to give half of your paycheck in taxes.That immoral and corrupt politicians are the rule rather than the exception. That it is right and proper to sue a resturaunt for cooking their food too hot or sueing a cigarette company for selling products that are dangerous...even though they knew that when they bought them.

What we are turning out has only one purpose for the future. Cannonfodder.They will be shot spotters for the rest of us. And it is sickening and depressing.

[Mike Tx]

I'm surprised no one has filed a law suit because they won't let them pray in school. It is unconstitutional.

[Royal Dragon]

MikeTx
Too much peer preasure not to. If you do something like file a law suit to be allowed to pray, then you get labeled as some sort of religious extremeist because you don't understand religion is for the weak minded. No one wants to be weak minded, so they internalize thier belifes, and do so with thier children, untill the belife is no more.

[CinaC]

As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in school.



I wonder what Watchman thinks of his police officer co-workers who went to public school.

I also completely disagree with him. I went to private school for grades 1-6, and public for 7-12. I never really paid attention in class, no matter what the teachers tried to do. School can't FORCE a person to learn, but in my experience (and I did go to public school in Howard County, MD which is one of the better school districts in the nation), the quality of teaching really isn't all that different between private and public.

If a kid wants to learn, they will. If they don't, they won't. It's as simple as that. I've never seen any of this indoctrination Watchman infers -- the most lecturing I ever got on "gun control" was that if we saw a student with a gun, we should contact a teacher. There was never any "liberal indoctrination" (except to be tolerant to people who aren't exactly like us, but I learned that through the social interactions at school and not from the classroom).

As far as prayer and schools go, you know what? I don't care. I don't like the notion of a moment of silence -- why does the whole school have to be silent for a minute for someone to pray? Why do I have to be silent so that you can pray -- does God not take you seriously if everyone else in class is laughing, talking and horsing around? Are Muslim students going to be provided mats to pray on at the required times of day? If you want to post a copy of the 10 Ammendments, be my guest -- but you'll also be posting a similar document for every religion represented in the US: Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, and so on and so forth.

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: CrazyinaJeep ]

[Watchman]

As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in school.

AMEN !

I wonder what Watchman thinks of his police officer co-workers who went to public school.

Usually not a thing until I personally meet them.

I also completely disagree with him. I went to private school for grades 1-6, and public for 7-12. I never really paid attention in class, no matter what the teachers tried to do.

Sometimes it shows.

School can't FORCE a person to learn, but in my experience (and I did go to public school in Howard County, MD which is one of the better school districts in the nation), the quality of teaching really isn't all that different between private and public.

I've been to both private and public, and in my personal experience the private school teachers were superior.

If a kid wants to learn, they will. If they don't, they won't. It's as simple as that.

Motivation and the ability to motivate others is whats separates the real teachers from the ones just bidding their time and collecting a paycheck.

I've never seen any of this indoctrination Watchman infers -- the most lecturing I ever got on "gun control" was that if we saw a student with a gun, we should contact a teacher.

Never talked about it...not even once? How we came to be a free country, how citizen can legally own guns, nothing ? Think ...somewhere in your education you must have talked about it somewhere. NEVER is a long time.

There was never any "liberal indoctrination" (except to be tolerant to people who aren't exactly like us, but I learned that through the social interactions at school and not from the classroom).

Being tolerant of other people that arent like us is not "liberal indoctrination", it never has been and never will be. It is simply good manners and shows respect. If you think that it is "liberal indoctrination", then it proves that you have been "indoctrinated."

As far as prayer and schools go, you know what? I don't care. I don't like the notion of a moment of silence -- why does the whole school have to be silent for a minute for someone to pray?

See above statement. It goes back to good manners and respect. If you dont understand that, perhaps you have never been taught any. Part of the problem with todays society. Lack of respect.


Why do I have to be silent so that you can pray -- does God not take you seriously if everyone else in class is laughing, talking and horsing around?

To show respect? I believe HE hears everything..even your thoughts.


Are Muslim students going to be provided mats to pray on at the required times of day? If you want to post a copy of the 10 Ammendments, be my guest -- but you'll also be posting a similar document for every religion represented in the US: Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, and so on and so forth.

Never happen. But you know what? I wouldnt care if they did. All I want is for the Christian religion to have the same representation in public schools that the rest of the religions get. You dont hear liberals squalling like mashed cats about the other stuff, only things that have to do with Christianity.

Remember the US Constitution ? It has a statement that says something like" Congress shall make no law thereof establishing a religion" and it deals with the US making an "offical" religion. That came straight from England where they had an official religion and it was against the law to practice anything else.It says nothing about separation of church and state. That is a liberal idea that has only taken effect in the last 30 years or so.

When I was a kid in the 3rd,4th,and 5th grade, we used to all stand and sing "God Bless America" after saluting the flag.
This in a public school in Massachusetts. Can you imagine doing that now? It would make national news.

See how far we have come?

Have a good day!

I'm off today and it is raining...bummer.

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Watchman ]

[retired]

Watchman,

The 1st amendment in addition to prohibiting the government from establishing a state religion, also prohibits the government from endorsing or sponsoring any particuliar religion. Everyone is free to practice the religion of their choice or to not practice any religion at all.

In other words, government is not to be involved in religion.

Retired

[Mike Tx]

Here is the text of the First Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The government is not required to give religious accessories to any religious group. My lawsuit remark above was made because the schools, via the courts, are prohibiting the free exercise of religion by not allowing prayer in some cases. It is clearly unconstitutional.

[LeslieBScott]

How is asking for a moment of silence so the students can pray to their God of choosing sponsoring any religion? How does this infringe on the rights of anyone? The BHLs purport that asking students to be quiet for sixty seconds so someone can pray infringes on their right to pursue happiness. But is disallowing a students silent prayer not also denying his (or her)right to pursue that same happiness?

The constitution states that the gov't can't sponsor a particular religion. However the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution also give persons in America certain rights. What is not being taught is that with these rights come responsibilities. I doubt that anyone here can legitimately argue that if I get my thrills by yelling "fire" in a crowded theater that I am simply exercising my right to free speech.

By allowing a person to pray silently is simply allowing that person to pursue happiness. By asking for a moment of silence is simply asking others to allow those that wish to pray to exercise their rights.

As far as whether which is best - public or private education - I too have experienced both. My personal opinion is that private education is far superior. For instance, I learned that by simply posting the ten ammendmants would not have anything to do with any religion. The ammendmants are a constitutional matter. If, on the other hand, a teacher wishes to post the Ten Commandments, then I could see the concern.

I would still have to ask myself this - What valid religion does not agree on the basisi of the Ten Commandments? Is it OK to murder?
Is it OK to steal? Simply because the Ten Commandments are written in the Bible does not necessarily mean that it is a "Christian thang". Aren't most laws based on those ten principals?

Yes, I believe that America is being dumbed down. History is being rewritten to satisfy those BHL Revisionists. We must be politically correct. Everybody is right, nobody is wrong. Everybody wins, nobody loses.

Personally, I would rather live in reality.

[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: LeslieBScott ]

[CinaC]

Sometimes it shows.

Oh, gee, thank you oh so much.

I've been to both private and public, and in my personal experience the private school teachers were superior.

Do you base all your views about public school on your personal experience?

Motivation and the ability to motivate others is whats separates the real teachers from the ones just bidding their time and collecting a paycheck.

In my experience, I've known more motivated teachers in public school then I have in private schools. The public teachers generally had to work a bit harder. There have certainly been some just bidding their time, but not as many as you've apparently met.

Never talked about it...not even once? How we came to be a free country, how citizen can legally own guns, nothing ? Think ...somewhere in your education you must have talked about it somewhere. NEVER is a long time.

You're making some assumptions.

I made it very clear the most lecturing I got on GUN CONTROL (not guns) was to contact a teacher if we saw a gun. For all you rip into me for misinterpreting what others say, you just did the same thing.

The Second Ammendment was discussed quite a bit, in the context of history class. Now, more detailed debates came in college, but, of course, I was only speaking of my 1-12 grade experience in the post you quoted.

Being tolerant of other people that arent like us is not "liberal indoctrination", it never has been and never will be. It is simply good manners and shows respect. If you think that it is "liberal indoctrination", then it proves that you have been "indoctrinated."

I must be indoctrinated. Wait, I just put a deposit down on a handgun. Gee, I guess I'm not. DOH!

See above statement. It goes back to good manners and respect. If you dont understand that, perhaps you have never been taught any. Part of the problem with todays society. Lack of respect.

Ah, yes, insults. Wonderful things.

To show respect? I believe HE hears everything..even your thoughts.

I believe He doesn't exist. I don't mean to insult by saying this, just to establish where I am as far as God stands.

If you want to pray, do it at home. A "moment of silence" is insulting to agnostics and athiests. We can do our thinking when everyone else is talking, why can't you can do your prayers when everyone else is talking, too? A moment of silence is a nice way to shun those who don't believe in God, Allah, Buddah, or whomever else. It's disrespectful.

All I want is for the Christian religion to have the same representation in public schools that the rest of the religions get.

And what representation do other religions get? You mean, like telling kids that Islam isn't a religion that advocates terrorism, like I'm sure many were told or believed after 9/11. Children have already learned "their" religion at home or church. School isn't going to teach that to them -- it's going to teach some of the basic precepts of other religions to them. It's not going to tell them to be Jewish, or Muslim, or Buddhist. It's going to teach them, "this is what Chrisitians believe, this is what Jews believe, etc, etc."

It's not a lot different from teaching European or African history. It's a different culture, a different way of life.

When I was a kid in the 3rd,4th,and 5th grade, we used to all stand and sing "God Bless America" after saluting the flag.

When I was a senior in High School ('97) we used to pledge allegiance to the flag ... 'God' and all. This was in Maryland, hardly a bastion of conversative thinking.

I'm off today and it is raining...bummer.

Yes, rain is a bummer.

[Don]

Originally posted by Crazyinajeep:
I believe He doesn't exist. I don't mean to insult by saying this, just to establish where I am as far as God stands.

You don't have to believe in him, he believe's in you anyway.

If you want to pray, do it at home.

Actually Crazy, I'll pray when and where I wish to, regardless of who is around or what I'm doing. If you are bothered by that, then that is YOUR problem and not other folks.

A "moment of silence" is insulting to agnostics and athiests.

Well guess what, I just flatly don't buy that. The only way you can really be insulted is if you are out looking for things to insult you.

Just HOW does a moment of silence INSULT you? I'm not flaming you here, I really do not understand your reasoning.