Philadelphia to Ban Minor Traffic Stops

[JaredO]

I guess traffic stops are too racist now and asking for a drivers license, registration, and proof of insurance is traumatic.

On a real note, yes we know the dangers of traffic stops. What activists don’t realize, is that this takes away from pro-active policing which is how a lot of dangerous criminals are taken off the street. With legislation like this being signed in and some cities already decriminalizing minor pedestrian violations, pro-active policing continues to die a slow death in major cities. When do you anticipate policing becoming strictly calls for service only? What are your opinions regarding this?

[Aidokea]

Philly has had nothing but Democrat Mayors since 1951, 70 years ago. Democrat voters are simply reaping what they have sown. This new policy, just like every other Democrat policy, will produce an entirely different effect than what they say they're trying to achieve.

I find it silly that the best case they could come up with to try to justify this, was a violent felon with outstanding warrants for gun crimes and running from the police, who got shot while resisting arrest for that warrant, during a traffic stop initiated because the vehicle was unregistered.

[emtguy89]

Good. Philadelphians voted for this crap, let them suffer the consequences.

[just joe]

Expect things like this to continue.

[phillyrube]

So much for that "broken windows" theory they pounded into us over the years. Time to be like the FD:. Wait for the call.

[ehbowen]

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away...

[PtownVAMike]

Remember folks, it's racist, sexist, classist and ableist to hold people accountable............

[Retired96]

I think back to 1977 and had we not stopped the car for tail lights out at 0230 in the morning the kidnapped woman tied up in the trunk would have been taken to the desert and murdered.. A very minor equipment violation saved that womans life because we heard her moaning in the trunk as we approached the car.

[ehbowen]

Isn't one of the recommended actions if you find yourself held hostage in a car trunk to kick out and/or break/pull wires for the tail lights?

[Iowa #1603]

I think back to 1977 and had we not stopped the car for tail lights out at 0230 in the morning the kidnapped woman tied up in the trunk would have been taken to the desert and murdered.. A very minor equipment violation saved that womans life because we heard her moaning in the trunk as we approached the car.

I got lots of suspended drivers off the road with headlight / taillight traffic stops.

[CCCSD]

Mcviegh.

Any questions?

[Aidokea]

I got lots of suspended drivers off the road with headlight / taillight traffic stops.

Yup. Dope, guns, and warrants, all night long, just off of traffic stops for minor violations.

[Bing_Oh]

Mcviegh.

Any questions?

Kehoe brothers.

[Iowa #1603]

Mcviegh.

Any questions?

Kehoe brothers.

and hundreds of others...................

[Bing_Oh]

and hundreds of others...................

To put it even more realistically, there are almost certainly tens of thousands of criminal arrests made in connection to minor traffic stops across the country every year. Obviously we can cite some of the more dramatic ones like McViegh and the Kehoes, but every one of us knows that you can easily get warrants and drugs and guns and DUI's and all kinds of other criminal violations from a "minor" traffic stop...and that proactive enforcement makes a difference on overall crime. Lots of those violations have real or potential victims at the other end of them, and that "minor traffic stop" can potentially make a big difference to those average people.

[not.in.MY.town]

I think the ban is a stupid idea that's ultimately going to do more harm than good.

That being said, I don't see anything "legally wrong" with the ban. It's essentially a city ordinance and new department policy. Just because SCOTUS held that pretextual stops are constitutional doesn't mean that officers have some sort of constitutional right to make those stops. Or am I missing something here?

[Bing_Oh]

Generally, the rule of thumb is that a lower tier of government can make a more restrictive law (so, for example, a city can make something illegal that's legal at the state level), but cannot make something less restrictive (so a city cannot legalize something that's illegal at the state level). This ordinance would seem to contradict that...it's basically legalizing minor offenses that are illegal at the state level.

It also sounds like the city is trying to make pretextual stops illegal, which have been upheld by the highest court in the land (SCOTUS).

Now, without reading it, I suspect that the ordinance probably tries to make an end-run around all of this by prohibiting officers from ENFORCING certain laws, but not technically decriminalizing them. But, at the same time, I can also see a higher court seeing through that and overturning it. Once again, the would require defiance of the ordinance by LEO's and a court battle...

[ArmyVet]

Pre-textual stops are unconstitutional in Washington State according the state constitution. Lower tier courts can be more protective of individual rights, but not more restrictive. I would imagine banning traffic stops would similarly be allowed by a lower tier government.

[Bing_Oh]

Considering pretextual stops are an issue that has already been addressed by the US Supreme Court, I suspect that Washington's ban on pretextual stops is more of an scenario of nobody (yet) having fought the issue through the courts. Having a SCOTUS decision that says that such conduct is legally-permissible would be a huge boon in such a legal argument...if you get to that point.

That's the thing...you need a rare LEO or prosecutor who is willing to push the issue to get these laws overturned. Most time, LEO's and prosecutors just adapt and overcome or go with the flow instead of involving themselves in what are potentially long, drawn-out legal quagmires.

[CCCSD]

To put it even more realistically, there are almost certainly tens of thousands of criminal arrests made in connection to minor traffic stops across the country every year. Obviously we can cite some of the more dramatic ones like McViegh and the Kehoes, but every one of us knows that you can easily get warrants and drugs and guns and DUI's and all kinds of other criminal violations from a "minor" traffic stop...and that proactive enforcement makes a difference on overall crime. Lots of those violations have real or potential victims at the other end of them, and that "minor traffic stop" can potentially make a big difference to those average people.

But…but…that’s racist.