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Debunking Myths About Capital Punishment

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  • JSD73
    replied
    I am a supporter of the death penalty and the only deterrent it does do is it keeps that person from ever taking another life again. Seriously, that's its deterrent. All of us who are cops, liberal or otherwise, know that the criminals we deal with do not live for the future, they live for the day at hand, the moment, the how can I get mine attitude. They are not consequence driven, they are opportunity driven...period!

    With that being said, I think it's necessary to have the death penalty, it is there to give the public, and the victims at times, the feeling of finality. That their loss has been given equal right...an eye for an eye if you will. There are some people in this world who have no redeeming value at all and the death penalty helps us get rid of some of them...other criminals take care of them for us...and we as the police can sometimes take them off society's hands.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeanG
    replied
    [QUOTE=tony.o;902900]
    Originally posted by ;902804
    Why am I a fanatic because I support the death penalty? I said before if one disagrees thats fine, but you don't hold the moral high ground because you value the life of a murderer.
    The death penalty is a joke in other states, but not in Texas. They execute so many every year its not even news worthy anymore. I believe they are the most harsh state in the union when it comes to crime, which is a good thing.
    Yeah, I'd even want justice for liberal families, somone else has to look out for them too.
    I say "fanatics" very loosely, as all death penalty supporters have legitimate reasons for their support. As do those (fanatics) that oppose the death penalty. There have been times where I'll see something on the news and I'll even say "man, that deserves the death penalty". I am neither for or against the death penalty. I am completely neutral when it comes to this form of punishment.

    I have heard of people doing whatever it takes to avoid jail, but never have I heard someone doing whatever it takes to avoid the death penalty (unless its some sort of plea deal. But by then it has lost its deterring effect). That's why I say it is useless. No, I do not hold the "moral high ground", nor am I judging you or anyone else on this subject. But at least you acknowledge that in "other states", the death penalty is a joke. That's what I'm basing my opinions on. I don't know what life is like in Texas, but in Florida, although we execute our fair share...it doesn't deter violent crimes.

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    [QUOTE=LeanG;902804]
    Originally posted by tony.o View Post

    It's called justice? What if the family of the victim doesn't believe in the death penalty? Do you feel that the convicted should be executed anyway?
    What about the other guy that was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing (I believe his name was Terry Nichols) No one talks about his fate and he's very much alive. (life in prison). The death penalty is not a deterrent. It's a joke. They sentence a few people to death to satisfy the death penalty "fanatics". But it doesn't work. Or the murder rate in the U.S. wouldn't be so high. Sorry, but this is my opinion and this is how I feel.
    Why am I a fanatic because I support the death penalty? I said before if one disagrees thats fine, but you don't hold the moral high ground because you value the life of a murderer.
    The death penalty is a joke in other states, but not in Texas. They execute so many every year its not even news worthy anymore. I believe they are the most harsh state in the union when it comes to crime, which is a good thing.
    Yeah, I'd even want justice for liberal families, somone else has to look out for them too.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeanG
    replied
    [QUOTE=tony.o;901748]
    Originally posted by LeanG View Post
    I don't care wether or not its a deterent. It's called justice, we don't get it much, but when it happens I'm happy about it. If you don't like the death penatly, thats fine. Just don't think that you hold the high moral ground as many opponents do. I blame alot of this 'forgiveness' crap on churches who falsely teach to automatically forgive everyone who does wrong.
    I'm not pleased that it takes so long to execute them, but I'll take what I can get at this time. Texas is doing a pretty good job under the current restraints and should be the model for other states. I'm embarrased to say that my state has only executed two or three in the last thirty or so years.
    Timothy McVeigh? Nobody talks about him at all because he's dead. If he was alive he'd be writing books and getting marriage proposals in the mail.
    It's called justice? What if the family of the victim doesn't believe in the death penalty? Do you feel that the convicted should be executed anyway?
    What about the other guy that was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing (I believe his name was Terry Nichols) No one talks about his fate and he's very much alive. (life in prison). The death penalty is not a deterrent. It's a joke. They sentence a few people to death to satisfy the death penalty "fanatics". But it doesn't work. Or the murder rate in the U.S. wouldn't be so high. Sorry, but this is my opinion and this is how I feel.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeanG
    replied
    [QUOTE=hillstreetblues;901733]
    Originally posted by LeanG View Post

    How do you know if a murderer thinks about the punishment before he commits a murder?

    Are you seriously trying to suggest that a criminal doesn't weigh the consequences of his or her actions? They do not consider what might happen if they get caught?

    This defies common sense.
    Helloooo...If a majority of criminals had common sense, do you think we would have these silly crimes? Besides, to answer your question, I've spoken to one person who has committed a murder and a host of others who are in the drug game (maybe an attempted murder here and there) the purpose of protecting their turf and their investments (drugs) far outweight the possible penalties. Your logic doesn't hold water in the criminal underworld. Don't believe me? Go ask them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cockney Corner.
    replied
    Originally posted by tony.o View Post
    OK, its personal eperiences. So no one will get the big picture unless you have an intimate experience.
    So what are your "personal e(x)periences" of the UK's criminal justice system (don't bother telling me about your "intimate experience" - I don't want to stick my nose into your private life)? I mean, you must have had some reason to attack the UK presumably?

    You people criticize us on a regular basis without any personal experience. Arrogance, your people invented it.
    I don't understand who "you people" are. If it's Europeans or Brits, yes, there has been the occasional anti-American post from this side of the ocean. But not from me. I have the greatest respect for the US. It's a shame that that courtesy isn't extended to my country.

    interview on podcop.net with Patrick, a UK cop, where the host is a US LEO, and the two compared the differences. So why don't you listen to the interviews, start another thread on this subject and tell me it ain't so.
    Want to post a link. Sounds interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • ray8285
    replied
    The death penalty keeps the convicted from ever killing again, by defintion it deters. IMO many of the persons who are being freed based on DNA evidence may be let go wrongly. When did we as LEO's learn how to properly collect evidence for DNA testing? Many of those being freed were sentenced in the 70's and 80's when most LEO's hadn't even heard of DNA evidence so I'm sure the handling of the evidence was flawed by current standards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Operator13
    replied
    [QUOTE=hillstreetblues;901733]
    Originally posted by LeanG View Post

    How do you know if a murderer thinks about the punishment before he commits a murder?

    Are you seriously trying to suggest that a criminal doesn't weigh the consequences of his or her actions? They do not consider what might happen if they get caught?

    This defies common sense.
    In my VERY limited experience with murderers, no they don't.

    I have a nephew who was convicted of 2nd degree murder & rightfully so.

    At the time of his offense did he think about the consequences of his actions? NO, he was too high on drugs to think.

    Now he realizes what he did and even made a full confession. He's now serving life without parole for a crime he comitted when he was 18.

    Personally I favor the death penalty for murderers and child molestors, maybe for kidnapping too.

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    Originally posted by Cockney Corner. View Post
    And, drawing on your expert knowledge of the UK criminal justice system, based no doubt on your years of practical experience, why is that?

    Personally, I wouldn't have the arrogance to comment on another country's justice system, but maybe, tony, you have the personal experiences to back your statement up. Have you been a cop over here? A prosecutor? A defence lawyer? Done time in Wormwood Scrubs?
    OK, its personal eperiences. So no one will get the big picture unless you have an intimate experience. You people criticize us on a regular basis without any personal experience. Arrogance, your people invented it.
    Actually I was surprised how laid back law enforcement is there. Such as handcuffing, arrests, punishments, even driving police vehicles.
    We have this huge website with all sorts of information on the way we do our business, but generally, little is known here about your hiring, training, proceedures, equipment, etc.
    I heard an interview on podcop.net with Patrick, a UK cop, where the host is a US LEO, and the two compared the differences. So why don't you listen to the interviews, start another thread on this subject and tell me it ain't so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cockney Corner.
    replied
    Originally posted by hillstreetblues View Post
    No that 's not true. Letting guilty go free is not a cornerstone of justice system.
    No, it really is. For a person to be found guilty in the US, the UK, or indeed, any other civilised part of the world, they have to be found guilty "beyond reasonable doubt". That doesn't mean "they're probably guilty" or "they look guilty". It also means that the guilty very frequently go free because we have "rule of law" and "trial by jury". We accept this because we don't live in one of those societies where the state can just lock people away forever, or indeed execute them, on a whim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cockney Corner.
    replied
    Originally posted by tony.o View Post
    He wouldn't know, the UK doesnt have a justice system.
    And, drawing on your expert knowledge of the UK criminal justice system, based no doubt on your years of practical experience, why is that?

    Personally, I wouldn't have the arrogance to comment on another country's justice system, but maybe, tony, you have the personal experiences to back your statement up. Have you been a cop over here? A prosecutor? A defence lawyer? Done time in Wormwood Scrubs?

    Leave a comment:


  • ElDiabloJoe
    replied
    I don't believe in the electric chair...
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    I prefer the electric bleachers.

    EDJ

    Leave a comment:


  • tony.o
    replied
    [QUOTE=LeanG;901694]
    Originally posted by tony.o View Post

    ??? Interesting rationale, wow...

    The death penalty is useless. Absolutely useless. I don't know who conducted these studies, but talk to the average person on the street and they only think of the death penalty when asked. No one is walking around thinking, "Oh boy, I better think twice before shooting him. Death Penalty " If the death penalty isn't televised, and the average person cannot see the trauma, or the hopelessness on the face of the condemned then what use is it? Reading in the paper that "John Doe" was executed doesn't leave a lasting impression on anyone. Life goes on. We remember Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma City bombing. Not for the way he was marched to the death chamber where he met his ultimate fate. I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but if you really want to make it work, televising it on free tv would be a start.
    I don't care wether or not its a deterent. It's called justice, we don't get it much, but when it happens I'm happy about it. If you don't like the death penatly, thats fine. Just don't think that you hold the high moral ground as many opponents do. I blame alot of this 'forgiveness' crap on churches who falsely teach to automatically forgive everyone who does wrong.
    I'm not pleased that it takes so long to execute them, but I'll take what I can get at this time. Texas is doing a pretty good job under the current restraints and should be the model for other states. I'm embarrased to say that my state has only executed two or three in the last thirty or so years.
    Timothy McVeigh? Nobody talks about him at all because he's dead. If he was alive he'd be writing books and getting marriage proposals in the mail.

    Leave a comment:


  • hillstreetblues
    replied
    [QUOTE=LeanG;901694]
    Originally posted by tony.o View Post

    ??? Interesting rationale, wow...

    The death penalty is useless. Absolutely useless. I don't know who conducted these studies, but talk to the average person on the street and they only think of the death penalty when asked. No one is walking around thinking, "Oh boy, I better think twice before shooting him. Death Penalty " If the death penalty isn't televised, and the average person cannot see the trauma, or the hopelessness on the face of the condemned then what use is it? Reading in the paper that "John Doe" was executed doesn't leave a lasting impression on anyone. Life goes on. We remember Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma City bombing. Not for the way he was marched to the death chamber where he met his ultimate fate. I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but if you really want to make it work, televising it on free tv would be a start.
    How do you know if a murderer thinks about the punishment before he commits a murder?

    Are you seriously trying to suggest that a criminal doesn't weigh the consequences of his or her actions? They do not consider what might happen if they get caught?

    This defies common sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • scratched13
    replied
    I am all for it. Streamline the process. I am not for televising it ..... except to those in jail to make THEM think twice.

    A dead person cannot kill again.

    Those that were let go were NOT necessarily "innocent."

    Leave a comment:

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