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Debunking Myths About Capital Punishment

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  • #16
    Originally posted by tony.o View Post
    Originally posted by itnstalln View Post
    True, but if was started executing speeders, I can guarantee they would never speed again You'd get the same result.
    So your comparing speeding to murder. Is that what your learning in school?
    Yes, I was comparing speeding to murder. The statement "Despite the claims of capital punishment opponents that executions do not deter murders, McVeigh has not killed anyone else since his execution." It is implying the rational for executing McVeigh is a guarantee that he can't commit the crimes again. A criminal locked up can escape (as Bundy did) or serve his sentence and leave and kill again. A dead man cannot. So as absurd as it is, I still think it holds true. Using the same rational, a dead speeder is guaranteed never to speed again. And therefore will never again risk crashing and killing innocent people. Although, they will never again contribute to society in a good way either.


    Doctors kill alot of people every year by mistake. You don't get rid of the death penalty because someone may be executed by mistake.
    EXCELLENT POINT! While I still object to the death penalty for other reasons, which you may be able to guess, I have nothing to say except simply, you are right. Mistakes are made and patients do lose their lives to non neglectful errors or complications. The profession goes to great lengths to constantly improve and prevent that from occurring. I guess if the justice system does the same, my argument doesn't fly too far does it.
    Great post.

    Will we ever achieve perfection, no. Should we always strive for it, yeah.

    Comment


    • #17
      [QUOTE=tony.o;901465]
      Originally posted by itnstalln View Post

      Doctors kill alot of people every year by mistake. You don't get rid of the death penalty because someone may be executed by mistake.
      ??? Interesting rationale, wow...

      The death penalty is useless. Absolutely useless. I don't know who conducted these studies, but talk to the average person on the street and they only think of the death penalty when asked. No one is walking around thinking, "Oh boy, I better think twice before shooting him. Death Penalty " If the death penalty isn't televised, and the average person cannot see the trauma, or the hopelessness on the face of the condemned then what use is it? Reading in the paper that "John Doe" was executed doesn't leave a lasting impression on anyone. Life goes on. We remember Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma City bombing. Not for the way he was marched to the death chamber where he met his ultimate fate. I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but if you really want to make it work, televising it on free tv would be a start.

      A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying... that he is wiser today than yesterday. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745

      It's only a conspiracy when your party is not in power.

      Comment


      • #18
        I am all for it. Streamline the process. I am not for televising it ..... except to those in jail to make THEM think twice.

        A dead person cannot kill again.

        Those that were let go were NOT necessarily "innocent."
        Space for rent .........

        Comment


        • #19
          [QUOTE=LeanG;901694]
          Originally posted by tony.o View Post

          ??? Interesting rationale, wow...

          The death penalty is useless. Absolutely useless. I don't know who conducted these studies, but talk to the average person on the street and they only think of the death penalty when asked. No one is walking around thinking, "Oh boy, I better think twice before shooting him. Death Penalty " If the death penalty isn't televised, and the average person cannot see the trauma, or the hopelessness on the face of the condemned then what use is it? Reading in the paper that "John Doe" was executed doesn't leave a lasting impression on anyone. Life goes on. We remember Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma City bombing. Not for the way he was marched to the death chamber where he met his ultimate fate. I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but if you really want to make it work, televising it on free tv would be a start.
          How do you know if a murderer thinks about the punishment before he commits a murder?

          Are you seriously trying to suggest that a criminal doesn't weigh the consequences of his or her actions? They do not consider what might happen if they get caught?

          This defies common sense.

          Comment


          • #20
            [QUOTE=LeanG;901694]
            Originally posted by tony.o View Post

            ??? Interesting rationale, wow...

            The death penalty is useless. Absolutely useless. I don't know who conducted these studies, but talk to the average person on the street and they only think of the death penalty when asked. No one is walking around thinking, "Oh boy, I better think twice before shooting him. Death Penalty " If the death penalty isn't televised, and the average person cannot see the trauma, or the hopelessness on the face of the condemned then what use is it? Reading in the paper that "John Doe" was executed doesn't leave a lasting impression on anyone. Life goes on. We remember Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma City bombing. Not for the way he was marched to the death chamber where he met his ultimate fate. I'm not a big fan of the death penalty, but if you really want to make it work, televising it on free tv would be a start.
            I don't care wether or not its a deterent. It's called justice, we don't get it much, but when it happens I'm happy about it. If you don't like the death penatly, thats fine. Just don't think that you hold the high moral ground as many opponents do. I blame alot of this 'forgiveness' crap on churches who falsely teach to automatically forgive everyone who does wrong.
            I'm not pleased that it takes so long to execute them, but I'll take what I can get at this time. Texas is doing a pretty good job under the current restraints and should be the model for other states. I'm embarrased to say that my state has only executed two or three in the last thirty or so years.
            Timothy McVeigh? Nobody talks about him at all because he's dead. If he was alive he'd be writing books and getting marriage proposals in the mail.
            The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

            Comment


            • #21
              I don't believe in the electric chair...
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              I prefer the electric bleachers.

              EDJ
              "It's a game of cat and mouse. It's a game of hide and seek. Albeit games with deadly consequences. Like most games-the better you know the rules, the more likely you are to win."

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tony.o View Post
                He wouldn't know, the UK doesnt have a justice system.
                And, drawing on your expert knowledge of the UK criminal justice system, based no doubt on your years of practical experience, why is that?

                Personally, I wouldn't have the arrogance to comment on another country's justice system, but maybe, tony, you have the personal experiences to back your statement up. Have you been a cop over here? A prosecutor? A defence lawyer? Done time in Wormwood Scrubs?
                I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by hillstreetblues View Post
                  No that 's not true. Letting guilty go free is not a cornerstone of justice system.
                  No, it really is. For a person to be found guilty in the US, the UK, or indeed, any other civilised part of the world, they have to be found guilty "beyond reasonable doubt". That doesn't mean "they're probably guilty" or "they look guilty". It also means that the guilty very frequently go free because we have "rule of law" and "trial by jury". We accept this because we don't live in one of those societies where the state can just lock people away forever, or indeed execute them, on a whim.
                  I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cockney Corner. View Post
                    And, drawing on your expert knowledge of the UK criminal justice system, based no doubt on your years of practical experience, why is that?

                    Personally, I wouldn't have the arrogance to comment on another country's justice system, but maybe, tony, you have the personal experiences to back your statement up. Have you been a cop over here? A prosecutor? A defence lawyer? Done time in Wormwood Scrubs?
                    OK, its personal eperiences. So no one will get the big picture unless you have an intimate experience. You people criticize us on a regular basis without any personal experience. Arrogance, your people invented it.
                    Actually I was surprised how laid back law enforcement is there. Such as handcuffing, arrests, punishments, even driving police vehicles.
                    We have this huge website with all sorts of information on the way we do our business, but generally, little is known here about your hiring, training, proceedures, equipment, etc.
                    I heard an interview on podcop.net with Patrick, a UK cop, where the host is a US LEO, and the two compared the differences. So why don't you listen to the interviews, start another thread on this subject and tell me it ain't so.
                    The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      [QUOTE=hillstreetblues;901733]
                      Originally posted by LeanG View Post

                      How do you know if a murderer thinks about the punishment before he commits a murder?

                      Are you seriously trying to suggest that a criminal doesn't weigh the consequences of his or her actions? They do not consider what might happen if they get caught?

                      This defies common sense.
                      In my VERY limited experience with murderers, no they don't.

                      I have a nephew who was convicted of 2nd degree murder & rightfully so.

                      At the time of his offense did he think about the consequences of his actions? NO, he was too high on drugs to think.

                      Now he realizes what he did and even made a full confession. He's now serving life without parole for a crime he comitted when he was 18.

                      Personally I favor the death penalty for murderers and child molestors, maybe for kidnapping too.
                      "The statements and opinions contained in this communication do not necessarily reflect the official position of the Commission regarding these issues."
                      ____________________________________
                      http://www.danielfaulkner.com
                      Justice for Officer Daniel Faulkner
                      ____________________________________
                      09/11/2001 Never Forget

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The death penalty keeps the convicted from ever killing again, by defintion it deters. IMO many of the persons who are being freed based on DNA evidence may be let go wrongly. When did we as LEO's learn how to properly collect evidence for DNA testing? Many of those being freed were sentenced in the 70's and 80's when most LEO's hadn't even heard of DNA evidence so I'm sure the handling of the evidence was flawed by current standards.
                        A Veteran is someone who at one point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount up to, and including their life. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today, who no longer understand that fact!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by tony.o View Post
                          OK, its personal eperiences. So no one will get the big picture unless you have an intimate experience.
                          So what are your "personal e(x)periences" of the UK's criminal justice system (don't bother telling me about your "intimate experience" - I don't want to stick my nose into your private life)? I mean, you must have had some reason to attack the UK presumably?

                          You people criticize us on a regular basis without any personal experience. Arrogance, your people invented it.
                          I don't understand who "you people" are. If it's Europeans or Brits, yes, there has been the occasional anti-American post from this side of the ocean. But not from me. I have the greatest respect for the US. It's a shame that that courtesy isn't extended to my country.

                          interview on podcop.net with Patrick, a UK cop, where the host is a US LEO, and the two compared the differences. So why don't you listen to the interviews, start another thread on this subject and tell me it ain't so.
                          Want to post a link. Sounds interesting.
                          I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            [QUOTE=hillstreetblues;901733]
                            Originally posted by LeanG View Post

                            How do you know if a murderer thinks about the punishment before he commits a murder?

                            Are you seriously trying to suggest that a criminal doesn't weigh the consequences of his or her actions? They do not consider what might happen if they get caught?

                            This defies common sense.
                            Helloooo...If a majority of criminals had common sense, do you think we would have these silly crimes? Besides, to answer your question, I've spoken to one person who has committed a murder and a host of others who are in the drug game (maybe an attempted murder here and there) the purpose of protecting their turf and their investments (drugs) far outweight the possible penalties. Your logic doesn't hold water in the criminal underworld. Don't believe me? Go ask them.

                            A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying... that he is wiser today than yesterday. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745

                            It's only a conspiracy when your party is not in power.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              [QUOTE=tony.o;901748]
                              Originally posted by LeanG View Post
                              I don't care wether or not its a deterent. It's called justice, we don't get it much, but when it happens I'm happy about it. If you don't like the death penatly, thats fine. Just don't think that you hold the high moral ground as many opponents do. I blame alot of this 'forgiveness' crap on churches who falsely teach to automatically forgive everyone who does wrong.
                              I'm not pleased that it takes so long to execute them, but I'll take what I can get at this time. Texas is doing a pretty good job under the current restraints and should be the model for other states. I'm embarrased to say that my state has only executed two or three in the last thirty or so years.
                              Timothy McVeigh? Nobody talks about him at all because he's dead. If he was alive he'd be writing books and getting marriage proposals in the mail.
                              It's called justice? What if the family of the victim doesn't believe in the death penalty? Do you feel that the convicted should be executed anyway?
                              What about the other guy that was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing (I believe his name was Terry Nichols) No one talks about his fate and he's very much alive. (life in prison). The death penalty is not a deterrent. It's a joke. They sentence a few people to death to satisfy the death penalty "fanatics". But it doesn't work. Or the murder rate in the U.S. wouldn't be so high. Sorry, but this is my opinion and this is how I feel.

                              A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying... that he is wiser today than yesterday. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745

                              It's only a conspiracy when your party is not in power.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                [QUOTE=LeanG;902804]
                                Originally posted by tony.o View Post

                                It's called justice? What if the family of the victim doesn't believe in the death penalty? Do you feel that the convicted should be executed anyway?
                                What about the other guy that was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing (I believe his name was Terry Nichols) No one talks about his fate and he's very much alive. (life in prison). The death penalty is not a deterrent. It's a joke. They sentence a few people to death to satisfy the death penalty "fanatics". But it doesn't work. Or the murder rate in the U.S. wouldn't be so high. Sorry, but this is my opinion and this is how I feel.
                                Why am I a fanatic because I support the death penalty? I said before if one disagrees thats fine, but you don't hold the moral high ground because you value the life of a murderer.
                                The death penalty is a joke in other states, but not in Texas. They execute so many every year its not even news worthy anymore. I believe they are the most harsh state in the union when it comes to crime, which is a good thing.
                                Yeah, I'd even want justice for liberal families, somone else has to look out for them too.
                                The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

                                Comment

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