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"Jan 6th Insurrection" narrative falls completely apart at the seams

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    Georgetime
    Infiltration Unit

  • Georgetime
    replied
    Originally posted by not.in.MY.town View Post

    He has not been criminally charged, and the professional conduct investigation exonerated him. He was able to articulate what needed to be articulated. That's good enough for me.

    Take politics out of it, and we'd all be justifying this officer's actions.
    If politics were truly out of it, his own agency wouldn't have cleared him. As I already perfectly illustrated in my previous post above, the "leadership" of his agency is more interested in politics than any other thing, including securing the Capitol. That he was "cleared" by his own agency who has skin in the game politically means absolutely nothing. I know of an officer in my neck of the woods who was "cleared" by his agency for ankle picking a handcuffed suspect who was running his mouth, causing him to pitch face first onto the asphalt with his hands behind his back. He lost teeth. When the civil attorney got hold of the body camera footage and released it to the media, the now former officer suddenly became "uncleared", and is under investigation for a "color of law" violation by the FBI as well as facing a massive lawsuit. So yeah, pardon me if I don't take the investigation of people who blatantly lied about Sicknick's cause of death and pandered to democrats at face value. I've been doing this a little too long and have seen too much to be swayed by them giving their own guy their stamp of approval. The same goes for any DA in Washington, D.C. There's a reason it's called "the Swamp", and it has nothing to do with any sports team.

    For the record: Shooting unarmed women (or any person) who doesn't pose an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury is never OK, be they Antifa, BLM, KKK, Trump supporters, feminists, or any other politically motivated person.
    Georgetime
    Infiltration Unit
    Last edited by Georgetime; 08-26-2021, 03:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:

  • Georgetime
    Infiltration Unit

  • Georgetime
    replied
    Originally posted by not.in.MY.town View Post

    Nah. "Actual real-world cops who work the streets" know that a feeble 135-pound female can shoot us dead just as easily as a ripped 250-pound male.
    Sure, they can. If they have a gun. Nothing about Ashli Babbitt suggested she was armed, because she wasn't. She made no statements, no moves toward a place where a gun might be concealed on her body, didn't act as if she had one in ANY WAY. Had she said "I've got a gun!" and reached for her waistband, by all means, light her up. That's not what happened. Leading up to and during he moment the trigger was pulled, there was absolutely zero indication she was armed and she presented no threat of imminent great bodily injury or death to any person, which is still what is required for a clean shoot. The law does not change because some congress critters are in a room down the hall, and I defy you to prove otherwise. Certainly there have been numerous, numerous instances of people equally as rowdy as the Jan 6th protesters storming the chamber floor while members of Congress were present, including during Kavanaugh's confirmation, and the answer by Capitol cops on those occasions was not to shoot unarmed protesters.

    We assume everyone's armed regardless of stature.
    No. We really don't. We know that everybody CAN be armed, but we don't assume automatically that every person we encounter IS. Even if we did, it doesn't give us carte blanche to open fire. It's context specific and based on reasonable inferences that can be articulated. The clown shoe coward that shot Babbitt had no objectively reasonable basis to believe that she was armed at all, let alone armed and about to shoot someone. He didn't pull the trigger in response to any perceived threat of her being armed. Period. End of story. No amount of quibbling or pie-in-the-sky mental gymnastics can overcome that ironclad fact.

    We also don't check people's service history before making life or death decisions, so the fact that she happens to be an Air Force veteran is irrelevant.
    It was absolutely 100% relevant to the point I was making to a guy who thinks he can question everyone's patriotism based on the fact he was in the Army, not related to the shooting itself. As far as "life or death", the only person to die by homicidal violence on 1/6 was her. Officer Brian Sicknick was not killed by any protestor and did not have any injuries, even though double-speaking politicians and Capitol Police continued to insist he died at the hands of protestors EVEN WHEN THEY KNEW THAT THIS WAS NOT TRUE. The Medical Examiner sat on the autopsy report and refused to turn it over to Judicial Watch under FOIA as required, and only did so after being sued over it. Watching the left suddenly have faux reverence for the very people they decried as racist oppressors while kneeling in Kenti cloths in that same building was enough to make a maggot gag in revulsion. Democrat Capitol police pawn Harry Dunn even lied about this AT THE 1/6 HEARING and made the claim that Sicknick was killed by protestors months after the autopsy proved unequivocally that he died of completely natural causes.

    At that point, the rioters had forcefully breached multiple perimeters, barriers, and restricted areas.
    And tons of them were let in by Capitol cops and took photos with them. There is no evidence that Babbitt wasn't one of the people who was let in and there is no evidence she demonstrated any propensity to commit violence.

    and that last officer did what everyone else collectively failed to do.
    There is a reason that only one guy saw fit to shoot an unarmed woman and the rest did not. The other cops did it right. Far from failing, they passed with flying colors as far as the proper use of deadly force is concerned.

    For all he knew, her backpack could have been filled with explosives (some had been set off earlier).
    You're gonna throw your back out with all that reaching. First, we don't get to use the "for all I know" standard, there has to be reasonable and articulable facts. This is day one academy stuff here. No explosives were set off by anyone other than Capitol police who used flash bangs on the crowd. Google it. Again, apply your "logic" to a situation on the street and reverse the race and political affiliation of the person being shot. If you shot a BLM protester with a backpack because of the mere fact backpacks can potentially hold bombs, you should and would expect a public crucifixion and that's what you'd get. Anybody with a shred of intellectual honesty would be forced to admit that Babbitt's shooting is only palatable to the media and politicians in charge because of the politically charged feelings and rhetoric surrounding the election and Jan 6, just as totally legitimate uses of force are resulting in riots (and sometimes charges) when the races of those involved are reversed.

    If he let Ashli Babbit enter because she's an "unarmed 135-pound female", then the rest of the mob would have followed and there would have been no stopping them. The officer did his job, and he acted reasonably under the circumstances.
    Nobody said they should let her enter, but they almost certainly could have stopped her without shooting her. They never made the attempt. Deadly force is only to be used as a last resort, when all lesser means have failed, or cannot reasonably be employed. There were tons of cops in the immediate vicinity. Had he blasted her with OC, checked her with a baton, or thrown her to the ground and cuffed her, those would have been reasonable means that could have reasonably been employed. Had those efforts been attempted and yet failed and the crowd surged in toward the last barrier between Congress and the protesters, then you might have an argument. Ashley Babbitt wasn't entering the last door between Congress and the protesters, as the video shows. There was no surge of people rushing behind her, they were all milling around while she was going through a broken window into an open hallway. Your version of events (just like the "leadership" of the Capitol police) is completely fictional and isn't borne out by the video evidence. The shooting was completely unnecessary at the moment it occurred. Maybe 30 seconds later it would have been necessary based on what might have happened. You don't shoot in anticipation there might be an imminent threat in 30 seconds, you shoot when there is an imminent threat. Again, this is day one academy stuff here.

    It's not a matter of politics. Or at least, it shouldn't be.
    You are so right, but not for the reasons you think you are. Remember in the Summer of 2020 when crowds surged trying to get over the fence at the White House, 60 secret service agents were wounded (11 hospitalized) and Trump and his family were rushed to the bunker? Do you remember how the media and leftists laughed and the hash tag "Bunker Boy" went viral on Twitter? This wasn't people strolling around in furry hats taking selfies. There was no talk of "insurrection" then, and I assure you, had those people gotten inside White House, there is no doubt what they would have done. Yet none of them got shot. The feds didn't launch an all out worldwide dragnet to bring any of them in. There were no hearings about it. So yeah, you're right, it shouldn't be political, but it absolutely is.

    Leave a comment:

  • not.in.MY.town
    Townie Soprano

  • not.in.MY.town
    replied
    Originally posted by Bing_Oh View Post

    I'm not sure I can agree with this.

    The use of deadly force is restricted to response to an immediate threat of serious physical harm or death by the offender. To justify it, you would have to show that Babbit fit those criteria...that she represented an immediate threat of serious physical harm or death through her actions. You can't "assume" that she's armed or that her backpack was full of explosives and use that as part of your justification without something more..."what if'ing" would pretty much open it up for any LEO to execute anyone at will. Likewise, the fact that the officer was protecting members or staff of Congress doesn't decrease the requirements for the use of deadly force.

    So, with all of the above being said, he would have to justify his use of deadly force (remember that self defense is an affirmative defense, to the burden would be on the officer) within the criteria of 1. Immediacy, 2. Threat of serious physical harm or death, and 3. By the offender in question (Babbit). If it doesn't fit the criteria, it's not an appropriate use of deadly force under law and his actions were criminal.
    He has not been criminally charged, and the professional conduct investigation exonerated him. He was able to articulate what needed to be articulated. That's good enough for me.

    Take politics out of it, and we'd all be justifying this officer's actions.

    Leave a comment:

  • Bing_Oh
    Disinformation Officer

  • Bing_Oh
    replied
    Originally posted by not.in.MY.town View Post
    Nah. "Actual real-world cops who work the streets" know that a feeble 135-pound female can shoot us dead just as easily as a ripped 250-pound male. We assume everyone's armed regardless of stature. We also don't check people's service history before making life or death decisions, so the fact that she happens to be an Air Force veteran is irrelevant.

    The officer who shot her was the very last line of defense before the mob could reach the Speaker's Lobby and members of Congress and staffers. At that point, the rioters had forcefully breached multiple perimeters, barriers, and restricted areas. SOMEONE had to stop them before they reached their intended targets, and that last officer did what everyone else collectively failed to do. For all he knew, her backpack could have been filled with explosives (some had been set off earlier). If he let Ashli Babbit enter because she's an "unarmed 135-pound female", then the rest of the mob would have followed and there would have been no stopping them.

    The officer did his job, and he acted reasonably under the circumstances. It's not a matter of politics. Or at least, it shouldn't be.
    I'm not sure I can agree with this.

    The use of deadly force is restricted to response to an immediate threat of serious physical harm or death by the offender. To justify it, you would have to show that Babbit fit those criteria...that she represented an immediate threat of serious physical harm or death through her actions. You can't "assume" that she's armed or that her backpack was full of explosives and use that as part of your justification without something more..."what if'ing" would pretty much open it up for any LEO to execute anyone at will. Likewise, the fact that the officer was protecting members or staff of Congress doesn't decrease the requirements for the use of deadly force.

    So, with all of the above being said, he would have to justify his use of deadly force (remember that self defense is an affirmative defense, to the burden would be on the officer) within the criteria of 1. Immediacy, 2. Threat of serious physical harm or death, and 3. By the offender in question (Babbit). If it doesn't fit the criteria, it's not an appropriate use of deadly force under law and his actions were criminal.

    Leave a comment:

  • not.in.MY.town
    Townie Soprano

  • not.in.MY.town
    replied
    Originally posted by Georgetime View Post
    I am not surprised that you can't understand why actual real-world cops who work the streets and who know the law and serve to uphold it regardless of political affiliations wouldn't support the totally unnecessary shooting of an unarmed 135 lbs female Air Force veteran.
    Nah. "Actual real-world cops who work the streets" know that a feeble 135-pound female can shoot us dead just as easily as a ripped 250-pound male. We assume everyone's armed regardless of stature. We also don't check people's service history before making life or death decisions, so the fact that she happens to be an Air Force veteran is irrelevant.

    The officer who shot her was the very last line of defense before the mob could reach the Speaker's Lobby and members of Congress and staffers. At that point, the rioters had forcefully breached multiple perimeters, barriers, and restricted areas. SOMEONE had to stop them before they reached their intended targets, and that last officer did what everyone else collectively failed to do. For all he knew, her backpack could have been filled with explosives (some had been set off earlier). If he let Ashli Babbit enter because she's an "unarmed 135-pound female", then the rest of the mob would have followed and there would have been no stopping them.

    The officer did his job, and he acted reasonably under the circumstances. It's not a matter of politics. Or at least, it shouldn't be.

    Leave a comment:

  • iconoclaste
    Forum Member

  • iconoclaste
    replied
    There was a ton of verifiable fraud and continuing audits uncover more by the day. This is a fact. You can refuse to acknowledge it, deny it, say whatever you will. The beautiful thing about facts is that they remain facts regardless. The first reaction from the media and TPTB was to say that there was no fraud. Then they said "Well, there was fraud but it wasn't enough to swing the election". Now their sentiment is "Well, even if it was enough to swing the election, Biden is already in office". This is a matter of recorded history. The democrat party and those who controlled the elections in the disputed states absolutely acted like people with something to hide and who are not confident in the legitimacy of what took place. Period.
    Honestly, this is deranged. This rhetoric is laced with hyperbole and disinformation. It's complete propaganda and it's the exact opposite of the truth -- which is that the lie of election fraud has been thoroughly debunked over and over and over again. Meanwhile the main perpetrators of the big lie (the Powell, Wood, and other loonies) are currently being disbarred and fined heavily for their absolute mockery of the legal system.

    Leave a comment:

  • Georgetime
    Infiltration Unit

  • Georgetime
    replied
    Originally posted by Ex Army MP View Post
    The difficulty in proven the crime of insurrection is determining who played what role and what, if any, coordination there was among actors.
    Yes, it is difficult to prove something when it did not, in reality, occur. Thank you Sherlock for that deep insight.

    1) the presence of protestors there and subsequent attack on the capitol, which I think is a fair characterization, was based upon two lies from a narcissist. The first lie was that the election was stolen.
    There was a ton of verifiable fraud and continuing audits uncover more by the day. This is a fact. You can refuse to acknowledge it, deny it, say whatever you will. The beautiful thing about facts is that they remain facts regardless. The first reaction from the media and TPTB was to say that there was no fraud. Then they said "Well, there was fraud but it wasn't enough to swing the election". Now their sentiment is "Well, even if it was enough to swing the election, Biden is already in office". This is a matter of recorded history. The democrat party and those who controlled the elections in the disputed states absolutely acted like people with something to hide and who are not confident in the legitimacy of what took place. Period.


    2) Ashli Babbit's death was justified and the officer who shot her deserves an award. I cannot for the life of me understand why there is little to no support for this patriot on sites like this.
    Based on the totality of what you've said thus far, I am not surprised that you can't understand why actual real-world cops who work the streets and who know the law and serve to uphold it regardless of political affiliations wouldn't support the totally unnecessary shooting of an unarmed 135 lbs female Air Force veteran, or the person who shot her. Even if you stretch the bounds of credulity (which the Capitol cops have done) and argue it was somehow necessary (even though there were several heavily armed and armored cops standing within almost reach-out-and grab distance), nobody who has an ounce of manliness about them would think that shooting an unarmed woman who posed no clearly evident threat of death or serious bodily injury is deserving of commendation for it. You've got to be just trolling here, there is no way that anybody could be that incredibly stupid in real life. God, I certainly hope there couldn't, at least.

    3) Ashl Babbit is a terrorist and the world is a better place without her.
    You are a despicable excuse for a human being. The world would be better off without you. See? Proclamations are easy to make.

    4) MAGA is a terrorist organization.
    You misspelled "ANTIFA". MAGA is just a slogan.

    6) Anyone who still supports Trump needs to have his/her head examined and is an un-American POS.
    I've got more patriotism in my still-Trump-supporting little toe than you do in your entire body. Nobody cares that you were in the Army once, I'm a Marine Corps vet myself, so you don't hold any trump cards when it comes to claims about loving this country. Also, making broad generalizations about 74 million people based on the fact that they support a particular candidate is just plain stupid and ignorant.

    I wish the OP and others would stop making excuses for these turds and come back to reality, your opinions of whether this meets the definition of an "insurrection" notwithstanding.
    It doesn't meet the definition of an insurrection, because it simply wasn't an insurrection, which was the point of the OP. As far as what you "wish", wish into one hand and take a dump in the other, see which one fills up first.

    Leave a comment:

  • Ex Army MP
    Forum Member

  • Ex Army MP
    replied
    The difficulty in proven the crime of insurrection is determining who played what role and what, if any, coordination there was among actors. But I will offer you a few thoughts:

    1) the presence of protestors there and subsequent attack on the capitol, which I think is a fair characterization, was based upon two lies from a narcissist. The first lie was that the election was stolen. The second lie, and an even bigger one, was that Mike Pence had the power to change the outcome. Because when it became apparent that he wasn't going to, that's when the frustrated low IQ MAGAs took their anger out on Congress trying to do its job, hence the chants " hang Mike Pence".

    2) Ashli Babbit's death was justified and the officer who shot her deserves an award. I cannot for the life of me understand why there is little to no support for this patriot on sites like this.

    3) Ashl Babbit is a terrorist and the world is a better place without her.

    4) MAGA is a terrorist organization.

    5) Any LE who were involved in this, even those whose offenses were mere trespass, need to be fired and do some jail time.

    6) Anyone who still supports Trump needs to have his/her head examined and is an un-American POS.

    This about sums up my thoughts on January 6th. I wish the OP and others would stop making excuses for these turds and come back to reality, your opinions of whether this meets the definition of an "insurrection" notwithstanding.

    Leave a comment:

  • merlin436
    Forum Member

  • merlin436
    commented on 's reply
    Remember Clinton and the "Arkancides"?
  • hold the air
    Forum Member

  • hold the air
    replied
    Originally posted by Levithane View Post

    Involvement =/= involved in releasing a virus to the public. At most U.S funds were allocated to that particular lab for studies.. Any funds allocated, more than likely fell out of oversight. I won't disagree there are a lot of bodies playing the lawyer game of parsing words to maintain institutional integrity (Anthony Fauci especially). The government is far too compartmentalized and inefficient to competently engage in many of the things conspiracy theorists allege.
    Yes proven tax dollars used for Fauci’s Jesuit Marxist “gain of function” animal to human experiment debacle.

    Tha fact is the Government and Fauci and the media continue to lie about the whole thing. A global push for a JAB for a virus a little worse than the flu.

    I agree the government isn’t doing it...... the people we see. It’s a far more organized group of black OP Bolshevik slime. Same playbook 100 years later.

    and pay no attention to the Shinebox fool. I’m very pro police. The Marxists,BLM, antifa, and brainwashed democrats hate police and are the ones destroying the country. Shinebox doesn’t like that I’ve called him out on his Sh*t attitude over the years.

    plus he’s reverting to “RACISST” leftist like attacks with nothing to back up his Sh*t argument. Acting like a little lefty
    hold the air
    Forum Member
    Last edited by hold the air; 08-24-2021, 08:29 PM.

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  • CCCSD
    Shadowman

  • CCCSD
    replied
    HOA is a troll @nd needn’t be paid attention to…unless you are bored and want to play.
    he is blatantly anti LE and harbors racist and supremest ideologies.

    Leave a comment:

  • Levithane
    Banned

  • Levithane
    replied
    Originally posted by hold the air View Post

    Well government confirmed involvement in a lab made virus released on the globe. Is keeping decades old $2 medicine that works away from the citizenry and has people wearing muzzles when that little weasel Fauci admitted they do nothing.


    oh and the FBI that honeypotted that shooter into killing people in Garland Texas......
    Involvement =/= involved in releasing a virus to the public. At most U.S funds were allocated to that particular lab for studies.. Any funds allocated, more than likely fell out of oversight. I won't disagree there are a lot of bodies playing the lawyer game of parsing words to maintain institutional integrity (Anthony Fauci especially). The government is far too compartmentalized and inefficient to competently engage in many of the things conspiracy theorists allege.

    Leave a comment:

  • hold the air
    Forum Member

  • hold the air
    replied
    Originally posted by Levithane View Post


    Theyve fired, and are in the process of prosecuting a dea agent who was at that event. The idea that the govt is doing some sort of false flag is preposterous. If you were to say a foreign intelligence agency, I'd probably agree.
    Well government confirmed involvement in a lab made virus released on the globe. Is keeping decades old $2 medicine that works away from the citizenry and has people wearing muzzles when that little weasel Fauci admitted they do nothing.


    oh and the FBI that honeypotted that shooter into killing people in Garland Texas......

    Leave a comment:

  • CCCSD
    Shadowman

  • CCCSD
    replied
    If you are so weak as to kill yourself because you got an *** kicking…you don’t need to be a cop.

    There is no conspiracy, just weakness.

    Leave a comment:

  • Levithane
    Banned

  • Levithane
    replied
    Originally posted by hold the air View Post

    How do you explain 4 Capital Police deaths in a few months?? FOUR!!!!

    allegedly 1 heart attack and 3 suicides..... something is going on and if you think the federal government isn’t up to no good, you’re beyond help


    Theyve fired, and are in the process of prosecuting a dea agent who was at that event. The idea that the govt is doing some sort of false flag is preposterous. If you were to say a foreign intelligence agency, I'd probably agree.

    Leave a comment:

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