Defunding? Future of police?

[Sarkis]

I remember how broken I felt when I was turned away from LAPD because of color vision deficiency after a contingent offer. Then for some damn reason I failed the polygraph at two other agencies. I ended up joining the military instead and recently began entertaining the idea of getting in the reserves after active duty and joining a LE agency thinking maybe I can appeal the color vision DQ now. This whole fiasco and tearing apart our nation put an end to my desire to become a LE officer as soon as they started talking about QI. In addition to that, I've already seen what I believe to be justifiable uses of force (non deadly) and officers end up getting charged or some BS statement is released to the public pandering to a small group of loud thugs or misinformed people. Too many of these police chiefs, city council members, mayors and sheriff's are a disgrace to our nation. The rule of law doesn't exist anymore, it seems like it's the rule of crying. These police chiefs forgot what it was like to be a police officer? They expect LE to go out and wipe peoples behinds? They take away QI, the smart ones will retire, quit and not be replaced and others will just turn a blind eye and let every suspect get away to not risk getting shafted by the very people they were there to protect.

[Levithane]

For those of you who want to get a better understanding of where these viewpoints are coming from and why the current climate is the way it is, watch this video linked below. If any of you are familiar with the Bret Weinstein and Evergreen college debacle from 2-4 years ago, you'll see similar similarities associated with what is going on now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0W9QbkX8Cs

[Levithane]

jim H. - Virginia USA

Ok then you missed the important portions of the video where they give a breakdown and in depth discussion of the problem. Yes that woman is a power hungry, and is most likely doing her whole song and dance for personal gain, at the expense of the students. What I'm pointing out is that if you watch the video it mirrors very closely of what is going on in the public environment today.

[angeredmgmt]

I remember how broken I felt when I was turned away from LAPD because of color vision deficiency after a contingent offer. Then for some damn reason I failed the polygraph at two other agencies. I ended up joining the military instead and recently began entertaining the idea of getting in the reserves after active duty and joining a LE agency thinking maybe I can appeal the color vision DQ now. This whole fiasco and tearing apart our nation put an end to my desire to become a LE officer as soon as they started talking about QI. In addition to that, I've already seen what I believe to be justifiable uses of force (non deadly) and officers end up getting charged or some BS statement is released to the public pandering to a small group of loud thugs or misinformed people. Too many of these police chiefs, city council members, mayors and sheriff's are a disgrace to our nation. The rule of law doesn't exist anymore, it seems like it's the rule of crying. These police chiefs forgot what it was like to be a police officer? They expect LE to go out and wipe peoples behinds? They take away QI, the smart ones will retire, quit and not be replaced and others will just turn a blind eye and let every suspect get away to not risk getting shafted by the very people they were there to protect.

I had a buddy who went through the hiring process with me. He got the handshake and a "welcome the blah blah PD" after going through the oral interview and other processes. However, he didn't pass the color vision test. He was devastated, but he got a job shortly after in the Federal prison system. That didn't last long, and he then went into nursing where he felt unbelievably blessed after he heard my war stories. I've lost touch with him over the years, but I'm sure he made a highly positive career move leaving anything to do with handcuffs. As a side note, my poor color vision almost didn't allow me into my military occupational specialty, and it made it harder for me to get onto a force. However, I squeaked in...just barely.

To add, if I was the current 'me', I wouldn't have any desire to seek a career in LE. However, if I wasn't 'me' but a 'me' that was raised in the world of fellow millennials, I may. There are a lot of reasons in that thinking, but it mostly comes down to the extreme change in society how it deals with a peace officer's role in society.

[DannoFanno]

Defunding the police is insane and will lead to lives being lost. In most of the scenarios they are talking about sending “crisis intervention teams”, that would be great because overstretched police departments can’t handle calls about a man sleeping on a park bench in many cities anyway. If you cut the funding and remove more officers from patrol duty, people are going to die, because there won’t be enough officers to respond to actual violent incidents.

[Bing_Oh]

Defunding the police is insane and will lead to lives being lost. In most of the scenarios they are talking about sending “crisis intervention teams”, that would be great because overstretched police departments can’t handle calls about a man sleeping on a park bench in many cities anyway. If you cut the funding and remove more officers from patrol duty, people are going to die, because there won’t be enough officers to respond to actual violent incidents.

Crisis intervention teams would be "great" right up until one of those homeless people (who may be under the influence of drugs or have serious untreated mental health issues) pulls a knife because they decided that the psychologist talking to them is an alien for Alpha Proxima 16 who wants to abduct them to harvest their organs. Or when a social worker gets to go to an active domestic where the aggressor won't stop kicking their significant other in the face and decides that maybe said social worker needs to be taught to mind their own business.

Then, you'll get all of these highly-educated, highly-paid (because they sure aren't going to work for a cop's salary) social workers, doctors, psychologists, and substance abuse counselors who won't go to a call without having a LEO tagging along to protect them. Now, you've easily doubled or tripled the cost of LE by adding "crisis intervention specialists" to the LE response, but LEO's will still have to deal with the same violence and threats as before...now, we'll just have to protect a bunch of liberal-educated "crisis intervention professionals" on top of our normal duties.

[Ratatatat]

I was watching the tele last night and landed on "Gordon Ramsey- Unchartered". It was another foodie road trip show, an obvious clone of Anthony Bourdain's "Parts Unknown", you know, celebrity chef goes somewhere exotic, meets people, eats their food, and suddenly has some awesome and profound insight about human existence.

This episode was in KwaZulu-Natal, a South African province along the Indian ocean. At one point, Ramsey goes to buy spices from a vendor in a small town, her home and front gate wrapped in high razor wire. Later in the show, Ramsey cooks a meal for a tribal chief who arrives with several security guys in camo carrying Vektor R4s.

Defund the police and razor wire will be stretched around homes from Maine to California and anyone with money will have their own private paramilitary for protection, just like in South Africa...

[NC Marine]

With all of the protesting about defunding and disbanding agencies, how will this change policing for the future? How will this affect future applicants?

First , I have read so many great responses in this thread.

I completely agreed with the Dallas PD Chief a few years ago (who kinda reminded me of Samuel L. Jackson) saying that American society has put too much on police, and that the police are the answer to every problem. And when you have these "specialized" types of enforcement, like code enforcement, animal control, parking, CPS, the list goes on, they almost ALWAYS end up calling for police assistance anyways. People LOVE to stir other people up, then call the police and step back.

Im not saying these jobs don't serve a purpose, but the end result many times seems to be calling the police anyways. In recent years, police have been involved with crisis intervention for mental health, and being given medical equipment such as AED or NARCAN to also perform other duties outside of LE. I have been torn personally about police being issued medical equipment because I wondered " Where Do We End Up Drawing The Line? "

[vc859]

If these defunding ideas go through here is what I think may happen:

Uniformed police would become like the “tourist police” of other countries. Possibly unarmed, with limited powers and really there for presence and deterrence and very preliminary response

Most crimes would be handled by investigative agencies whether that is an all encompassing agency like a State Bureau of Investigation or smaller topic specific agencies like Department of Insurance, DMV, Liquor Control Board etc.

Arrests would be handled like the federal system where target letters, grand jury subpoenas and back channel calls between the ADA and the defense attorneys have most cases negotiated and closed before anyone steps foot in a court team

Of course there are all kinds of problems with this system and public support is still overwhelmingly behind LE but if they go through with this I can see something like this being the plan

[Ratatatat]

If these defunding ideas go through here is what I think may happen:

Uniformed police would become like the “tourist police” of other countries. Possibly unarmed, with limited powers and really there for presence and deterrence and very preliminary response

Most crimes would be handled by investigative agencies whether that is an all encompassing agency like a State Bureau of Investigation or smaller topic specific agencies like Department of Insurance, DMV, Liquor Control Board etc.

Arrests would be handled like the federal system where target letters, grand jury subpoenas and back channel calls between the ADA and the defense attorneys have most cases negotiated and closed before anyone steps foot in a court team

Of course there are all kinds of problems with this system and public support is still overwhelmingly behind LE but if they go through with this I can see something like this being the plan

I think you're on the right track with those predictions.

The current thinking is to 'unbundle' traditional police duties and reassign to newly minted non-LE entities. Say a motorcyclist is riding at 100 mph on the freeway, in and out of lanes, popping wheelies (something I'd see almost daily on my commute home from the big hellhole city I worked in), and careens into a cement bridge coffer. Instead of dispatching police to the scene, a team of DOT employees would respond to investigate the accident and squeegee the remains off the pavement.

No more responding to calls of homeless evacuating their bowels in public parks and scrounging for food in in dumpsters- that will be the job of social workers and dieticians. Non-violent domestics will be responded to by marriage counselors.

Response to violent crimes in progress will be outsourced to private security. The model will be similar to how private ambulances work- 911 call, respond, take care of emergency need, send bill to victim.

With few (or no police), the U.S. will adopt the Chinese model of Chennguan, also known as the Urban Administrative and Law Enforcement Bureau. These are not police officers with any real authority but a national force of civil servants who address the 'broken windows' problems like litter, vandalism, loud music, people selling mix cds and fake purses out of their cars, and all the other little problems that tear at the social fabric.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Administrative_and_Law_Enforcement_Bureau

[Iowa #1603]

I think you're on the right track with those predictions.

The current thinking is to 'unbundle' traditional police duties and reassign to newly minted non-LE entities. Say a motorcyclist is riding at 100 mph on the freeway, in and out of lanes, popping wheelies (something I'd see almost daily on my commute home from the big hellhole city I worked in), and careens into a cement bridge coffer. Instead of dispatching police to the scene, a team of DOT employees would respond to investigate the accident and squeegee the remains off the pavement.

No more responding to calls of homeless evacuating their bowels in public parks and scrounging for food in in dumpsters- that will be the job of social workers and dieticians. Non-violent domestics will be responded to by marriage counselors.

Response to violent crimes in progress will be outsourced to private security. The model will be similar to how private ambulances work- 911 call, respond, take care of emergency need, send bill to victim.

With few (or no police), the U.S. will adopt the Chinese model of Chennguan, also known as the Urban Administrative and Law Enforcement Bureau. These are not police officers with any real authority but a national force of civil servants who address the 'broken windows' problems like litter, vandalism, loud music, people selling mix cds and fake purses out of their cars, and all the other little problems that tear at the social fabric.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Administrative_and_Law_Enforcement_Bureau

And our profession is gone.

Glad to be retired and living on my "compound " in the country

[Ratatatat]

I live in the country as well. Rarely see any police presence because people are respectful and tend to themselves. I don't see it changing much, even if the S hits the fan in the cities.....

[BNWS]

Most people that lived and worked during the "crack wars" know what's coming. We used to be reactive here in new york. It was a s**t show.
To quote Mayor Ed Koch when he was beaten by David Dinkins. “ “The people have spoken … and they must be punished.”
.

[Ratatatat]

There will be some economic pluses... and minuses.. to the new policing model.

1. Criminal Justice programs at colleges and universities will tank. No one will want a CJ degree because no one will hire someone with a CJ degree (to those here who believe CJ degrees are worthless, there will be no question about it in the future).

2. Self-sponsor police academies at community colleges will also go the way of the dodo bird.

3. Private firearms/tactics training will boom as more people realize they are on their own. The private security industry will triple in size.

4. Police supply companies like Galls will transition from public safety to personal security.

5. Ford and Chevrolet will cease making police pursuit vehicles because there will no longer be pursuits. They will stop making police models in general because there will no longer be vehicle stops. The replacement will be Mercedes Sprinter vans to carry the crisis response teams of mental health professionals, social workers, physicians, and life coaches.

[Ratatatat]

Heed my words. The above is about to be the future.

[iconoclaste]

Will suburban police forces increase as a result of city police forces decreasing?

[Iowa #1603]

Thre will be some economic pluses... and minuses.. to the new policing model.


3. Private firearms/tactics training will boom as more people realize they are on their own.

My friend does this.......................

In the last 3 months he can't keep firearms in stock (He is a GLOCK perfered dealer.....so he gets priority)
He has been open sometimes 7 days a week & has had night time hours up to midnight at times

His training classes have been packed (only 10 at a time etc )

[SOCAleo]

I think administrators at police/sheriff departments can implement changes right away. Changes that will cause the citizenry to realize immediately that their cries to change and defund the police was wrong. It will make them think twice about what they mistakenly demanded.

Change the old school thinking of; You call for a police officer or deputy and you will get one no questions asked:

Instead, screen all calls for service and determine if it merits an officer's response.

For example:

The voluminous calls my department gets for welfare checks for suicidal subjects. Dispatch should ask, well is the suicidal person threatening to harm someone else? If the answer is no, we don't respond. Our answer back should be, well if the subject off's him/her self then we will pick up the pieces after.

The voluminous calls of loud parties or noise complaints. Dispatch will have to tell the pansy reporting party who doesn't have the fortitude to walk over to their neighbors house and ask them to turn the music down, that now due to defunding and police reforms he/she will have to actually interact with the "offending" neighbor and ask them to turn the music down themselves.

The calls we get from the "concerned" husband, wife, parent, friend etc. etc. of an overdue camper/hiker/fisherman and so on. The answer should be, if you are so concerned you will have to actually get up off your duff and attempt to look for them yourself. The typical outcome of those calls are the person was out of cell phone range and they were enjoying themselves in peace.

Domestics, dispatch should ask if there was any physical violence between the two and if the answer is, "no, we are just arguing and he/she is drunk." If that be the case then we will not respond. I mean who doesn't argue on occasion with their spouse/significant other? When did the idea of having to have an officer respond to your marital spat begin anyway?

The typical "Karen" call of, I see people camping on the side of the road and they need to be told that they are not allowed to camp there. The answer from dispatch should be, is the place where they are camping your property? If no, the question should be whose property is it? If yes, the answer should be well tell them to leave. We won't respond unless its county/city property, or you have confronted the camper on your property and they are refusing to obey. Why'd you call us? Call the Forest Service.

Another 'Karen" call about how your hamburger at McDonalds was not heated at the right temperature and you are now in a verbal argument with the manager. The dispatch answer should be, if the restaurant is refusing to accommodate you then never patronize them again, we aren't going to respond.

The transient sleeping on a park bench or panhandling. Dispatch should say, well the constitution and the supreme court upheld that people have a right to be in the public square and in our jurisdiction there are no ordinances that says you can't ask people for money. Plus the DA will never prosecute for it, even if we could do anything about it.

The welfare check of people lying on the sidewalk asleep. Nothing illegal about sleeping on a sidewalk and just because someone is sleeping on the sidewalk it doesn't mean they are injured or in need of an emergency response. The next thing dispatch should say to the caller is, "why don't you take it upon yourself, because you are such a "good Samaritan" and you are so concerned about this person, that you attempt to check on their welfare on your own. If there is some kind of emergency medical attention then we will send the medics to assist."

No response to any and all civil issues/disputes.

For the sake of trying to keep this post somewhat brief, I will leave it there. But as you can see, admin could eliminate a lot of calls for service just in the initial dispatch contact. It will definitely wake these people up to the fact that police reforms and defunding WILL in fact impact these people's lives. People will quickly realize, "Wow, I actually have to get off my rear end and handle stuff on my own. I will actually have to talk to people and maybe even get confrontational, that's scary! I miss having the police do all my dirty work, I don't like to actually have to get my hands dirty."