Ahmaud Arbery case

[hold the air]

I like Trump, so don't get me wrong, but he does have an issue with spouting off what's immediately on his mind before really looking into things.

But, he also knows that there is a hostile media that will hang on his every word and spin them to make him look like a racist.

I'm guessing if he would've said something to the effect of, "I saw the video and it is very concerning, but I have not heard all of the facts at this point and will withhold judgement until I hear them" the media would have a field day with that.

Politically, Trump has been trying to court the black vote and so far the predictions have been showing success. So............not trying to defend him, but I get it at the same time.

CNN: "Trump says he helped blacks; he's lying to pander to them for votes"

Donny will never win with 95% of the deep state media

[westside popo]

I only tried looking up some stuff on this case last night.

I want to set the record straight in regards to Georgia laws being discussed here.

Georgia has a citizens arrest law but it's for felonies only. OCGA 17-4-60.

There are different types of criminal trespass (all misdemeanors). One requires the subject to have prior notice to stay off property. Trespass signs don't count.
If you enter a property to commit another crime even if you didn't have prior notice you are guilty of criminal trespass.
If you damage property without their consent it is criminal trespass. Note: criminal damage to property is a felony if the damaged property is above a certain dollar amount. Below that amount they get charged with criminal trespass. OCGA 16-7-21

Burglary is entering or remaining in a dwelling or structure to commit a THEFT or any FELONY.
OCGA 16-7-1

What I haven't seen here or in the couple of news sources I've watched, unless I missed it, is we also have a criminal attempt law. OCGA 16-4-1

If the crime that was attempted was a felony then the criminal attempt charge is also a felony but the sentence is not as long.

You can carry a long gun (shotgun in this case), loaded or unloaded with or without a Georgia Carry License. Unless you are already prohibited from possessing a firearm. You can carry any firearm loaded or unloaded, with or without a Georgia Carry License in your vehicle as in this case. OCGA 16-11-126.

And we do have a stand your ground law and we have the right to use reasonable force to protect ourselves or others and property. OCGA 16-3-21 , OCGA 16-3-24.

I might have missed something....

[westside popo]

Forgot OCGA 16-3-23 and 16-3-23.1 in regards to self defense etc.

[westside popo]

In regards to the thefts from vehicles or entering autos. OCGA 16-8-18 Also a felony.

[Pogue Mahone]

Some thoughts...

What string of burglaries? I've heard that there's only been one theft in the area, and that was of a gun taken from a pickup truck. The owner of that truck? McMichaels Sr..

Do people other than the owners ever check out houses under construction (like this one)?

McMichaels Sr. is a "former police officer." What are officers instructed to do if they come upon a crime that involves no threat of injury or death to others?

And we do have a stand your ground law and we have the right to use reasonable force to protect ourselves or others and property. OCGA 16-3-21 , OCGA 16-3-24.

Some GSC rulings to ponder:

Patel vs. State 2004

Edwards vs. State 2017

[Bing_Oh]

So, is McMichaels Sr. a former police officer or a former investigator for the prosecutor's office? I've now seen both in the media and nobody can seem to decide...

If he's a former LEO, I havn't seen where. If he's a former investigator for the DA, then you're looking at (at least the impression of) a huge conflict of interest if that office was the one to make the original decision not to prosecute.

[Iowa #1603]

He was both a Police Officer and an investigator for the DA. Also DA investigators are LEO's in many areas

From a NBC news article on line
"On Feb. 27, the Brunswick area district attorney, Jackie Johnson, recused herself from the case, noting that Gregory McMichael, a former Glynn County police officer, had been an investigator in her office for more than 30 years before he retired in May 2019.:

[Iowa #1603]

While the Georgia statute is pretty liberal. it requires more than a hunch. Did these guys have more than that? I don't know. Telling someone you want to talk to them is substantially different from telling them that they are the subject of a citizen's arrest.

The BIG thing about Citizen's Arrest over LEO arrest is that if a citizen makes an arrest they had BETTER BE 100% CORRECT as to a crime being committed. An LEO can make mistakes and be covered under liability.

[hold the air]

Mark. My. Words.

acquittal or too many hung juries to count

[Bing_Oh]

I want to set the record straight in regards to Georgia laws being discussed here.

Georgia has a citizens arrest law but it's for felonies only. OCGA 17-4-60.

Eh...

O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Now, I'm not from Georgia and I don't have any training or experience in Georgia law, but that wording sure seems to open up citizen's arrest to any crime, misdemeanor or felony.

[westside popo]

No where in the code section you quoted, does it say misdemeanor. It does say, "If the offense is a felony..."

[Bing_Oh]

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.

That would seem to imply any offense, misdemeanor or felony.

If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Since the statute goes on to specifically address felonies, I would assume that the intent was to cover both. Of course, as I said, I'm not versed or trained in Georgia law so you would know better then me.

[westside popo]

The first part of the code section allows private citizens to make citizen arrests. The second part that begins with "if" describes the conditions when the citizen can make an arrest. Which is for felonies.

The only exception to this law is for shoplifting from retail establishments under certain conditions. But that's a totally different law and would not apply here.

[Bing_Oh]

That makes sense...the way your laws are worded is just different from how we do it. So, your citizen's arrest laws are pretty much identical to ours (felonies or theft offenses in progress)

[westside popo]

Some thoughts...

What string of burglaries? I've heard that there's only been one theft in the area, and that was of a gun taken from a pickup truck. The owner of that truck? McMichaels Sr..

Do people other than the owners ever check out houses under construction (like this one)?

McMichaels Sr. is a "former police officer." What are officers instructed to do if they come upon a crime that involves no threat of injury or death to others?



Some GSC rulings to ponder:

Patel vs. State 2004

Edwards vs. State 2017

Patel v State is a different set of circumstances but I see what you're getting at.

From what I understand the McMichaels or some one called it in then followed or chased the subject. The shooting didn't occur until the subject or someone in the cell video ran towards the subject with the shotgun and grabbed it. Or did I miss something?

Couldn't find the other case just another by the same name from 2011.

[fedmunds2]

If he so happened committed a crime the minimum offense will be trespassing, which is a misdemeanor. If people want to be a so call Good Samaritan and make a citizen arrest then get a badge and be a damn officer. It’s that simple!

[tanksoldier]

If he so happened committed a crime the minimum offense will be trespassing, which is a misdemeanor. If people want to be a so call Good Samaritan and make a citizen arrest then get a badge and be a damn officer. It’s that simple!

Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence

A citizen's arrest is just as lawful as a police arrest. Using necessary force to effect the arrest is also lawful.

If they struggled over the gun, an attempt to disarm is a deadly force attack and warrants deadly force in return.

Supposedly they suspected him of burglary, specifically the theft of the firearm from a dwelling, so a citizen's arrest in this case would be lawful without them having witnessed it.

[Pogue Mahone]

Supposedly they suspected him of burglary, specifically the theft of the firearm from a dwelling, so a citizen's arrest in this case would be lawful without them having witnessed it.

1) Why would there be a firearm in a house being constructed?

2) Owner of property says that nothing was taken from structure.

3) Only recent theft on record is the gun that MicMichaels left in his pickup truck days earlier.

There's something fishy about that story....

[westside popo]

If he so happened committed a crime the minimum offense will be trespassing, which is a misdemeanor. If people want to be a so call Good Samaritan and make a citizen arrest then get a badge and be a damn officer. It’s that simple!

Criminal trespass might fit but like I pointed out in the previous post, he would have to have been previously warned to stay off the property. Break or damage something on the property. Enter the property to commit another crime.

So how can he be charged with criminal trespass? If he can be charged with the sub section of criminal trespass in that he entered the property to commit another crime.... Then wouldn't criminal attempt burglary also fit? Isn't there a video of him or someone inside the structure?

BTW it doesn't have to be one or the other it can be both. Many times I've added criminal trespass to the list of charges for incidents like forgery, entering auto, burglary, shoplifting, ID fraud, robbery, disorderly conduct ,thefts, theft by receiving etc. Judges signed off on every warrant too.

[westside popo]

1) Why would there be a firearm in a house being constructed?

2) Owner of property says that nothing was taken from structure.

3) Only recent theft on record is the gun that MicMichaels left in his pickup truck days earlier.

There's something fishy about that story....

Maybe it is fishy but even if he didn't take anything it may just mean he didn't find anything he liked or wanted to steal in the structure?

[Ratatatat]

Ratatatat's Guide to Citizen's Arrest:

USE for the following circumstances:

-Someone is breaking into your house
-Someone is over-powering a police officer on the side of the road during a traffic stop
-Someone pulls a knife on an old lady in the parking lot at Wal-Mart to get her purse

DON'T USE for the following circumstances:

-Two dudes get into a fist fight in a park
-Dude grabs a sixer of Bud Light at 7-11 and runs out without paying
-Dude enters empty house under construction for several minutes and walks out with nothing in his hands

[westside popo]

BTW a DA is over a judicial circuit which may cover several counties. They also have an investigator who is a certified law enforcement officer. As far as I know the DA investigators were already experienced, veteran, seasoned investigators when they got the job.

[fedmunds2]

I personally think it’s a racial matter. Aubrey literally defended himself and if you don’t think it’s not. some of you may be in the wrong profession of work .