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Ahmaud Arbery case

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  • #16
    Here’s a short video from inside the house under construction that appears to be Arbery.

    https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgi...ahmaud-arbery/

    Also, looked at the video of the shooting the media is going apoplectic over...Arbery looks to be the aggressor. Many questions to be answered. It’s a short grainy video but it’s starting to look like the “facts” pushed by the media aren’t entirely correct. It’s being reported that Arbery has prior arrests/convictions, that the location of the “jog” is over 12 miles from his residence, that he drove to the area to “run” and now videos of him entering a house under construction. Of course the media thinks it’s all about race... apparently the only crimes that involve race (according to the media) are when the alleged perpetrator(s) are white or in the case of Zimmerman white hispanic. We all know that the actual facts of the crime don’t matter. As always it’s agenda first. First step only publish the most innocent picture of the “victim” (the younger the better).

    I’m not saying that it’s a good shoot but I’ve seen this scenario play out dozens of times and they get it wrong more often than getting it right. Let’s have some actual facts and see more evidence.
    “Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.” - Steven Wright

    US Army MP (95B) 1992-1997
    DOJ Agent/ DHS Officer 1997 to Present

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Exbpa340 View Post
      Here’s a short video from inside the house under construction that appears to be Arbery.

      https://www.news4jax.com/news/georgi...ahmaud-arbery/

      Also, looked at the video of the shooting the media is going apoplectic over...Arbery looks to be the aggressor. Many questions to be answered. It’s a short grainy video but it’s starting to look like the “facts” pushed by the media aren’t entirely correct. It’s being reported that Arbery has prior arrests/convictions, that the location of the “jog” is over 12 miles from his residence, that he drove to the area to “run” and now videos of him entering a house under construction. Of course the media thinks it’s all about race... apparently the only crimes that involve race (according to the media) are when the alleged perpetrator(s) are white or in the case of Zimmerman white hispanic. We all know that the actual facts of the crime don’t matter. As always it’s agenda first. First step only publish the most innocent picture of the “victim” (the younger the better).

      I’m not saying that it’s a good shoot but I’ve seen this scenario play out dozens of times and they get it wrong more often than getting it right. Let’s have some actual facts and see more evidence.
      Yes there's 4 videos now.

      1 of the shooting

      Porch video of him entering house/running away once caught

      Inside house video trespass/burglary

      Previous video from another residence /job site trespassing/burglarizing at night

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      • #18
        https://twitter.com/LibertyHangout/s...599427077?s=20

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        • #19
          Originally posted by hold the air View Post

          What state and county was this? Pffft

          two armed trespassers on his land and he gets charged.

          What a ******* joke

          Flyover rural America, not some liberal gun hating coastal city.

          Farms and woodlands. Recreational trespass is a common problem for people who own property, like my former associate.

          What got him jammed up was pointing a pistol at two men who were hundreds of yards from his house, and posed no immediate threat to his safety. This was deer season. They were dressed in camo. Hunters are all over the woods and sometimes they cross fences or walk past boundary signs. The deputy (and the DA) didn't feel he was justified in holding two men at gun point to get their identity.

          Larger point: be smart about confrontation. And just like what happened with my bud, I suspect this situation in Glynn County was completely avoidable....


          Best Confrontation Practices, from Ratatatat:

          If someone is entering your occupied home:

          -grab shotgun and .357. Take whatever action is necessary to protect self and family.

          If someone is entering the vacant home under construction across the street:

          -open window and yell, "Hey! Get out of there!"

          -call property owner and inform him someone is in his spec house.

          -call 911 and provide a detailed description. Film the situation until police arrive. Sit back and enjoy a beer and let the proper authorities do their job.
          The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

          Comment


          • #20
            It's not crystal clear to me either, and there is a lot missing from that shooting video. If you hopped out of a vehicle with a shotgun and said you wanted to talk to me, I'd probably pretty aggressively respond to defend myself.

            Comment


            • #21
              Actually I don't see a real problem for law enforcement here.


              Local police had direction from the District Attorneys NOT to arrest/charge. The decision to recuse themselves (two different DA's) is outside of LE. Regardless of the propriety of those recusals.....and other decisions made by the prosecutors..... ....it sounds like enough investigation was done by LE at the time (in Feb) for a decision not to charge was made by the attorneys.

              The 2 perps were obviously not flight risks and remained available for the State Investigators to make an arrest when they took over the case.

              It sounds to me like Law Enforcement stayed in their lane on this case. They investigated and passed info up the chain and parts of the criminal justice system above them might have screwed the pooch


              As far as Rat's incident ..........................I am going to agree that pointing a weapon at trespassers who are not aggressive or attempting to break into buildings on a rural property is disturbing
              Last edited by Iowa #1603; 05-11-2020, 08:24 AM.
              My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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              • #22
                The fog is clearing somewhat with the additional videos. One aspect I am dismissing, given the additional videos, is the notion he was out for a jog. The media is still stuck on that narrative though....

                https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/10/opini...son/index.html

                So what do we have here? I submit it's something we've all seen before.... a narrative made complicated by perceptions and the past; by the media and by larger agendas. Ahmaud Arbery was seen rummaging about in a vacant home and the father/son neighbor took matters in their own hands. Confrontation led to tragedy. Small town associations led to failures of accountability. Now the story has transcended into a national debate about race and justice. But the reality is actually rather simple... Ahmaud Arbery had no business rummaging in that house and the McMichaels had no business grabbing their guns and chasing after him...
                The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

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                • #23
                  Any info on the jogging attire?

                  Dressed appropriately?
                  Pants / sweats of some sort?
                  What type of shoes?
                  Weather conditions, temp?



                  Comment


                  • #24
                    As a NYC cop I responded to more than my share of these types of incidents. In almost every situation everyone regretted their involvement. Most ended up in a use of force that was determined could have been avoided and some type of charges administrative or criminal resulted.
                    Last edited by BNWS; 05-11-2020, 10:55 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
                      So what do we have here? I submit it's something we've all seen before.... a narrative made complicated by perceptions and the past; by the media and by larger agendas. Ahmaud Arbery was seen rummaging about in a vacant home and the father/son neighbor took matters in their own hands. Confrontation led to tragedy. Small town associations led to failures of accountability. Now the story has transcended into a national debate about race and justice. But the reality is actually rather simple... Ahmaud Arbery had no business rummaging in that house and the McMichaels had no business grabbing their guns and chasing after him...
                      What's going to complicate this even more is Georgia's citizen's arrest laws. I didn't realize it until I did some research in regards to this specific case, but Georgia essentially gives citizens more expansive arrest powers than LEO's. The law basically says that any citizen who sees someone committing any crime or has "immediate knowledge" that they committed a crime in Georgia can arrest.

                      Courts have apparently ruled in various ways regarding how far a citizen can go in using force to make the detention, but the law seems to almost encourage vigilantism and pushes a case like this even further into a gray area. Originally I would have said that there's a logical chance that Arbery had responded to the McMichaels' aggressive and confrontational actions as a potential deadly force threat and may have been attempting to disarm him because he believed he had no other choice. That law, however, might mean that the McMichaels were legally in the right to attempt to detain him and that Arbery's attempt to disarm the elder McMichael could have been interpreted in itself as a deadly force threat and justified a response.

                      There's no doubt that this is going to be a legal poo-storm for whatever prosecutor ends up with it, not just because of the media attention but because the facts of the case and the law are not even close to being clear.
                      "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                      -Friedrich Nietzsche

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                      • Ratatatat
                        Ratatatat commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Very well put.

                      • Bing_Oh
                        Bing_Oh commented
                        Editing a comment
                        If I were a betting man, I'd say that the criminal case is going to be a coin toss...there's a pretty good chance that it'll end up with a hung jury. Civilly, these two good ole boys are gonna lose their double-wides.

                      • Iowa #1603
                        Iowa #1603 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I agree with Bing..........

                    • #26
                      Certainly they’re wishing now that they had just let this one go by,.......

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        While the Georgia statute is pretty liberal. it requires more than a hunch. Did these guys have more than that? I don't know. Telling someone you want to talk to them is substantially different from telling them that they are the subject of a citizen's arrest.

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                        • #28
                          Originally posted by just joe View Post
                          While the Georgia statute is pretty liberal. it requires more than a hunch. Did these guys have more than that? I don't know. Telling someone you want to talk to them is substantially different from telling them that they are the subject of a citizen's arrest.
                          Supposedly, they saw him on the property of a house under construction. That put it into the realm of trespassing...not exactly a deadly force-level offense, but the Georgia law doesn't seem to differentiate.

                          Pulling in front of someone in the middle of the road and hopping out with a long gun and saying that you want to "talk" to someone while a second guy stands in the bed of the truck with a pistol would carry a much different connotation to me than someone just sauntering up and requesting a neighborly conversation. I'm an experienced LEO who has been involved in countless confrontations and that scenario would sure as heck make me think that the "talk" had a high likelihood of ending with me dead in a ditch...I can just imagine what your average citizen would think!
                          "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                          -Friedrich Nietzsche

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                          • #29
                            Originally posted by NolaT View Post
                            Any info on the jogging attire?

                            Dressed appropriately?
                            Pants / sweats of some sort?
                            What type of shoes?
                            Weather conditions, temp?


                            A good defense attorney will definitely be needed for these guys and a good defense attorney will be asking these types of questions. Also, questions like, did the McMichaels, or one of the McMichaels when making their initial approach upon Arbery make a comment to him to stop because they are placing him under citizen's arrest?

                            Prosecutors can still claim Arbery was in fear of his life and had a right to fight back in self defense. But it will put some doubt on that claim if the defense can prove that the McMichaels told Arbery they were placing him under citizen's arrest.

                            Another question is, did the McMichaels recognize Arbery from prior burglary's and or the prior burglary video surveillance camera footage? This would prove that the McMichaels had prior knowledge of Arbery committing felonies and had a reasonable belief that Arbery was committing another felony when they saw him illegally entering the newly constructed home. This puts the whole, "well Arbery was just trespassing, he didn't steal anything" notion to rest.

                            Proving prior knowledge would up the seriousness of Arbery's presence in the neighborhood, and would be easier to convince a jury that there was a more immediate need to detain.
                            Last edited by SOCAleo; 05-11-2020, 12:35 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #30
                              Originally posted by hold the air View Post

                              Trump is in idiot for opening his mouth too soon in this one
                              I like Trump, so don't get me wrong, but he does have an issue with spouting off what's immediately on his mind before really looking into things.

                              But, he also knows that there is a hostile media that will hang on his every word and spin them to make him look like a racist.

                              I'm guessing if he would've said something to the effect of, "I saw the video and it is very concerning, but I have not heard all of the facts at this point and will withhold judgement until I hear them" the media would have a field day with that.

                              Politically, Trump has been trying to court the black vote and so far the predictions have been showing success. So............not trying to defend him, but I get it at the same time.

                              Comment

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