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  • Coronavirus police forcing cops to make illegal arrests?

    I now live in North Carolina (I think you can figure out my industry by my username and current location).

    There have been two instances, one in Charlotte and one in Raleigh, where cops have been forced - by the political powers that be - to make arrests for protestors or activists. In Charlotte, CMPD made 8 arrests for pro life demonstrators who were socially distancing and Raleigh police arrested 1 protester at a Reopen protest at the Capitol. These arrests were made on the premise of violating the stay at home order, which is a Class 2 misdemeanor.

    I have read Governor Cooper’s order. It allows for outdoor exercise presuming social distancing is followed. I’m not claiming this happened in either the Raleigh or Charlotte case, but it does give a statutory mechanism to comply with the executive order and still protest. Thus, I don’t think it helped anybody that Raleigh police goes on Twitter and says protesting is a non essential activity.

    However, in addition to the text of the Governor’s order, there are constitutional problems with the arrests in Charlotte and Raleigh. While I believe the federal Constitution’s right to assembly provision in the 1st Amendment allows for stay at home order since the word peaceably is used before assemble (Coronavirus infection is presumably not peaceable), our State Constitution appears to have a stronger protection for right to assembly.

    Sec. 12. Right of assembly and petition.
    The people have a right to assemble together to consult for their common good, to instruct their representatives, and to apply to the General Assembly for redress of grievances; but secret political societies are dangerous to the liberties of a free people and shall not be tolerated.

    I don’t see anything in this right saying that this right may be suspended by executive order. I think our (liberal) politicians have put the police in a very bad spot where police are now going to be held personally responsible for bad arrests and public confidence in police will go down. What worse way is their for people to hate the police when police are accused of making illegal arrests against people practicing their religious faith on a very important moral issue or against people literally starving based on a politician telling them they’re not allowed to work because they are “non-essential”?


    https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegisla...stitution.html


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.new...242010496.html


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.new...241919161.html

    https://governor.nc.gov/news/executive-orders

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/billofrights


  • #2
    And the purpose of your first agenda laden post is...?
    Now go home and get your shine box!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
      And the purpose of your first agenda laden post is...?
      Telling us we shouldn't make unconstitutional arrests.
      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BlueLivesMatterNYC View Post
        I now live in North Carolina (I think you can figure out my industry by my username and current location).

        There have been two instances, one in Charlotte and one in Raleigh, where cops have been forced - by the political powers that be - to make arrests for protestors or activists. In Charlotte, CMPD made 8 arrests for pro life demonstrators who were socially distancing and Raleigh police arrested 1 protester at a Reopen protest at the Capitol. These arrests were made on the premise of violating the stay at home order, which is a Class 2 misdemeanor.

        I have read Governor Cooper’s order. It allows for outdoor exercise presuming social distancing is followed. I’m not claiming this happened in either the Raleigh or Charlotte case, but it does give a statutory mechanism to comply with the executive order and still protest. Thus, I don’t think it helped anybody that Raleigh police goes on Twitter and says protesting is a non essential activity.

        However, in addition to the text of the Governor’s order, there are constitutional problems with the arrests in Charlotte and Raleigh. While I believe the federal Constitution’s right to assembly provision in the 1st Amendment allows for stay at home order since the word peaceably is used before assemble (Coronavirus infection is presumably not peaceable), our State Constitution appears to have a stronger protection for right to assembly.

        Sec. 12. Right of assembly and petition.
        The people have a right to assemble together to consult for their common good, to instruct their representatives, and to apply to the General Assembly for redress of grievances; but secret political societies are dangerous to the liberties of a free people and shall not be tolerated.

        I don’t see anything in this right saying that this right may be suspended by executive order. I think our (liberal) politicians have put the police in a very bad spot where police are now going to be held personally responsible for bad arrests and public confidence in police will go down. What worse way is their for people to hate the police when police are accused of making illegal arrests against people practicing their religious faith on a very important moral issue or against people literally starving based on a politician telling them they’re not allowed to work because they are “non-essential”?


        https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegisla...stitution.html


        https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.new...242010496.html


        https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.new...241919161.html

        https://governor.nc.gov/news/executive-orders

        https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/billofrights


        Nothing can be said or done to undo what has occurred in the instances you have cited. It would appear your only remedy at this point is the courts and not an internet forum.
        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

        Comment


        • #5
          If you've been arrested under what you consider an unconstitutional law, then you should dispute your arrest through the judicial system. That's why we have separation of powers in the United States...the legislature makes the law, the executive (including the police) enforces the law, and the judicial interprets the law. We even have a court...the Supreme Court of the United States...whose sole job is to make sure that laws are constitutional.
          "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
          -Friedrich Nietzsche

          Comment


          • #6
            Public Health Laws and Pandemic emergencies pretty much trump all these BS examples. If YOU want to die, go ahead. Don’t expose others because YOU think it’s some “right” you have.

            Just shoot yourself at home, makes it a lot safer for all and we don’t have to worry about you.
            Now go home and get your shine box!

            Comment


            • #7
              sometimes you may have to give up rights for safety and security. the government sometimes needs to let police have more control of the people during this time

              Comment


              • #8
                this may be the new normal so get used to it. you may not be able to travel anyplace at anytime you feel like it or have more than 10 people togather at your home or any place untill the last person dies from this flu from China.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by roadrunner5877 View Post
                  sometimes you may have to give up rights for safety and security. the government sometimes needs to let police have more control of the people during this time
                  Ummmm, sorry but that’s not how the Constitution works.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I suspect that the executive order was promulgated and issued under some statutory or constitutional authority for such action in times of emergency. No matter how exalted the position, no elected official can make up law or assign punishments without some basis in law (duly adopted statute or constitutional provision).

                    I suggest that you continue your research on the underlying authority for the emergency declaration.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by roadrunner5877 View Post
                      sometimes you may have to give up rights for safety and security. the government sometimes needs to let police have more control of the people during this time
                      Conclusions such as this, and the tendencies of humans to adopt such attitudes, is the primary reason why we have a Constitution as the underlying basis for all law and policy. Our Constitution enumerates and guarantees individual liberties while limiting government powers and authority.

                      Whenever our government attempts to extend its control over the citizenry there will be resistance. This is a huge factor in maintaining a healthy balance in a representative democracy and resisting tyranny.

                      To paraphrase one of our Founding Fathers, Mr. Benjamin Franklin: Those who would give up essential liberties in exchange for promises of security deserve neither liberty nor security.

                      These topics used to be covered in junior high school civics classes and high school government classes. Now everyone in the educational arena seems to be stuck on polishing every little self-esteemer and making sure everyone feels special and protected. We may be coming to a crisis point in modern America, and plenty of professional politicians are more than ready to take advantage.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by roadrunner5877 View Post
                        sometimes you may have to give up rights for safety and security. the government sometimes needs to let police have more control of the people during this time
                        Go and thoroughly research human history. You'll find the commonality among current and past societies that anytime you give too much or absolute power to a governing body that power is abused. I can assure you the last thing you want is some of the duly elected officials having too much power, especially during a crisis. What will happen is that the next time there is an issue plaguing the nation someone somewhere will make the argument "we did all this during X issue, and thus a precedent has been set allowing us to do Y now".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The government has the power to quarantine individuals under the commerce clause of the Constitution and it falls under the purview of the states police powers, which allows law enforcement actions in regard to the national HEALTH, safety and welfare of its citizens.

                          The difference, or the gray area here, is the forced quarantine of ALL citizens.

                          I agree that if someone is sick and could cause others to be infected than yes, force the quarantine of that INDIVIDUAL person. But in my opinion, the government does not have the power to force a quarantine on an otherwise healthy individual. This is not in the purview of police powers granted to states in the commerce clause of the constitution, plain and simple.

                          If we all lived during the time of the founders and this coronavirus was sweeping across the nation, our framers would most likely tell the populace to go about your business at your own risk. Then they would force a quarantine on an actual positive tested individual, nothing more.

                          You can't just write off constitutional rights of the people because others have an infectious disease.
                          Last edited by SOCAleo; 04-27-2020, 11:19 AM.

                          Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by SOCAleo View Post
                          The government has the power to quarantine individuals under the commerce clause of the Constitution and it falls under the purview of the states police powers, which allows law enforcement actions in regard to the national HEALTH, safety and welfare of its citizens.

                          The difference, or the gray area here, is the forced quarantine of ALL citizens.

                          I agree that if someone is sick and could cause others to be infected than yes, force the quarantine of that INDIVIDUAL person. But in my opinion, the government does not have the power to force a quarantine on an otherwise healthy individual. This is not in the purview of police powers granted to states in the commerce clause of the constitution, plain and simple.

                          If we all lived during the time of the founders and this coronavirus was sweeping across the nation, our framers would most likely tell the populace to go about your business at your own risk. Then they would force a quarantine on an actual positive tested individual, nothing more.

                          You can't just write off constitutional rights of the people because others have an infectious disease.
                          I agree with nearly all of your post except this... You are okay with the forced quarantine of someone who is sick. The sole purpose of quarantine is to limit the spread of an illness from one person to others, correct?

                          So I ask... what is the definition of "sick", which would be enough to qualify for quarantine? Is it only those who display a specific list of obvious symptoms? There is ample evidence that there is an incubation period with humans exposed to SARS COV-2 (the virus that causes the COVID-19 illness) where they display no symptoms, but are carrying and spreading the virus... not to mention, there is a fairly broad range of symptoms, which can come in a variety of combinations, even some never develop symptoms. Does an infected person that shows no symptoms qualify as "sick"?

                          Under these conditions, how do we know who is "sick" and who is healthy? If we wait to force-isolate a person who is positive for the virus until they have a fever, or lose sense of taste and smell, or have shortness of breath and a dry cough.... it's too late. That person has already given it to dozens of other people. The only way to know who is spreading the virus is testing... and we all know what a fiasco testing has been. In the absence of testing every citizen, the only proven way to limit the spread is isolation.

                          Nobody like this situation. Nobody wants everything locked down. But our reported death toll is fast approaching the number of US servicemen killed in action over the course of the Vietnam War.. which lasted 14 years... within approximately two months.
                          You can trust just about every officer you work with to risk their life to save yours, but don't ever leave your lunch in the breakroom refrigerator.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Here's some firefighters turning in a restaurant for feeding cops:
                            https://abc13.com/the-buffalo-grille...texas/6124657/

                            Comment

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