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  • BIA Law Enforcement Academy to NPS/USFS/NMFS/USFW

    Would the BIA Police Academy, also known as the U.S. Indian Police Academy located in Artesia, NM, satisfy the LMPT Academy for NPS, USFS, NOAA Enforcement and US Fish&Wildlife?

    If so, how long would one need to be a BIA Law Enforcement Officer before applying to the GL 1801 gigs(USFS, NPS, USFW, NMFS)?

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    No. You need to attend LMPT. Even the seasonal NPS ranger that have already attended the seasonal academy need to attend LMPT before becoming permanent.

    We currently have one former BIA officer in my LMPT class.

    Comment


    • Stonejay87
      Stonejay87 commented
      Editing a comment
      So with the BIA academy and a year or two time served would qualify to apply to one of those million usajob announcements?

  • #3
    The NPS has, or did have, their own training different than anyone else.

    They won’t accept anything but their own academy, and for most seasonal jobs you have to put yourself thru it before you can apply... and for most full time positions you have to have some seasonal time under your belt.

    My dad was a NPS LE Ranger for years, I grew up in national parks, and it’s an amazing gig if you can jump thru the hoops to get it.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

    "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

    Comment


    • #4
      So with the BIA academy and a year or two time served would qualify to apply to one of those million usajob announcements?



      'A year or two time served'. LoL you make it sound like a stint in the pen. Reckon I did 27 years hard time then....

      Are you a tribal member? That will get you waaaayy more traction than attending a BIA academy.

      it’s an amazing gig if you can jump thru the hoops to get it.



      I hate to always be peeing on someone's bowl of Wheaties, but I differ on that assessment. Frankly, DOI is bush league when it comes to LE and that largely has to do with its' agencies being run by LE-hating fish biologists and revolutionary war historians and granola eating posey pickers. My recommendation, to anyone looking for a career in LE, is save yourself a mountain of frustration and grief and avoid any agency that is half arse about it.

      Plus, let me say this: for every ranger living the Smoky Bear dream in Grand Teton or Grand Canyon, there is a doppleganger ranger at Herbert Hoover Boyhood Home National Historic Site in Iowa or Cannonball Run National Battlefield Park in Arkansas or dozens of other nothing to do or see places. Many parks have required (and very substandard) housing, so the day you retire, you have no equity, except a GS-9 no AUO pension worth about $2K a month. Money isn't everything but sunsets and mountain vistas aren't going to make for much of a life after retirement....
      Last edited by Ratatatat; 02-17-2020, 03:24 PM.
      Chance favors the prepared mind.

      -Louis Pasteur

      Comment


      • #5
        And I’m betting they STILL won’t listen to sound advice like this. Can’t say they weren’t warned.
        Now go home and get your shine box!

        Comment


        • #6
          [QUOTE=Ratatatat;n6878520] [LEFT]
          [COLOR=#111111][FONT=inherit]'a year or two time served'. lol you make it sound like a stint in the pen. Reckon I did 27 years hard time then....

          Are you a tribal member? That will get you waaaayy more traction than attending a BIA academy.





          I accepted a 20k bonus from the VA. The grass is not greener here so my stint was 3 years time served. I now surpassed that and I can finally get the hell out of that meat grinder.

          My previous Chief told me before the VA (DACP), "the devil you know may be better than the devil you don't know." He was absolutely correct!

          I am not a tribal member. BIA seems fun. Was just curious on NPS and USFS because I reside in Alaska and would like to come back eventually.
          Last edited by Stonejay87; 02-17-2020, 11:42 AM.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post

            'A year or two time served'. LoL you make it sound like a stint in the pen. Reckon I did 27 years hard time then....

            Are you a tribal member? That will get you waaaayy more traction than attending a BIA academy.





            I hate to always be peeing on someone's bowl of Wheaties, but I differ on that assessment. Frankly, DOI is bush league when it comes to LE and that largely has to do with its' agencies being run by LE-hating fish biologists and revolutionary war historians and granola eating posey pickers. My recommendation, to anyone looking for a career in LE, is save yourself a mountain of frustration and grief and avoid any agency that is half arse about it.

            Plus, let me say this: for every ranger living the Smoky Bear dream in Grand Teton or Grand Canyon, there is a doppleganger ranger at Herbert Hoover Boyhood Home National Historic Site in Iowa or Cannonball Run National Battlefield Park in Arkansas or dozens of other nothing to do or see places. Many parks have required (and very substandard) housing, so the day you retire, you have no equity, except a GS-9 no AUO pension worth about $2K a month. Money isn't everything but sunsets and mountain vistas aren't going to make for much of a life after retirement....
            Oh, it's crap for a career and not much for law enforcement activity... BUT getting to live in a national park is great.

            There's a federal detention facility in Yosemite staffed by Parkies. Not a great LE experience but you get to live in Yosemite.

            My dad wasn't there to be supercop, he was there to get paid for backpacking. He'd spend a week at a ranger station, then a week hiking a circuit of backcountry campgrounds. Rinse, repeat.

            I was making my own solo backcountry trips at 13 years old. I'd sign in at the campground guest books so Dad could keep track of me. It was an amazing way to grow up.
            Last edited by tanksoldier; 02-19-2020, 04:02 PM.
            "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

            "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

            Comment


            • #8
              Experiences vary with the park life. I did it for a few seasons, long ago in a galaxy far away. My first season at a park in Lake Superior country, I lived in a 800 square foot park home with 6 other seasonals, male/female, ages 18-24. Boy, did things get interesting as the summer progressed. I would compare it to that moldy 90s show on MTV- 'The Real World', where everyone hooks up with everyone and by the time the season ends, everyone has had enough of each other. As far as the job- not all rangers got paid to go hiking all the time. People had to work in the visitor center, answering the same dumb questions over and over, or do trail crew work, which is no walk in the park, if you know anything about North Country black flies and mosquitos.

              My second park was in the Pac NW. My housing was a single-wide trailer infested with carpenter ants, big suckers an inch long with wings. They would come out at night and when I got up to use the head, hundreds would crunch under my feet as I walked to the bathroom. I told my supervisor about it and eventually maintenance bug bombed the trailer, which knocked the population down for a week or two. I asked to get moved to better housing (there were several nice houses in an adjacent district that were once in-holdings) and was told too bad, you're only here for a few months, so just deal with the ants. It was my first lesson in two important regards: first, not everyone in NPS gets treated equitably (some people get to live in nice houses; some get bug-infested trailers), and if you don't like how things are going, well, no one cares, the season will be over in September, and next year, 1,000 people will apply for the job if you don't return.

              My third park was in the intermountain west. Ranger quarters was a historic log cabin from when the park was part of a large cattle empire. It was super cool- all the furniture was original knotty pine, an old moose mount sat above the fireplace mantle, which soon became covered with empty bottles of George Dickel whiskey. The cabin was a hub of activity and every night was campfires and ranger camaraderie. Then one night as I laid in bed, coffee grounds began to drop on my cheek. Hmmm, that's weird, I thought, and fell back asleep, until more coffee grounds fell on my face and I turned the light on, only to discover a bat was scrapping out guano from between chinks in the logs above me. I grabbed my NPS-issued PR-24 and dispatched the bat and tried to plug any gaps with rags and duct tape but coffee grounds still fell on my head every night. This went on for a few weeks until a routine inspection found the attic was filled with years of guano and we were abruptly moved due to concerns of contracting a lung disease called histoplasmosis. The ironic thing is park management put us in mice-infested single wide trailers, and mouse feces carries histoplasmosis just as much as bat feces. The lesson I learned here is management doesn't always make decisions based on any rational examination of the circumstances; sometimes they make knee jerk decisions and kick the can to a scenario that's no better. And with a backlog of maintenance work in the billions and billions, the pride of the world's park systems is in one pathetic state of condition.


              I guess my point in this rambling walk down memory lane is yeah it's fun to be ranger, out in God's sun-kissed glory where the salmon run and the buffalo roam, but the agency cares little about providing decent living conditions and even less if you leave, because there's plenty of dreamers out there willing to put up with low wages and shoddy required housing and lousy management, because it's the best job in America, right?
              Last edited by Ratatatat; 02-23-2020, 12:00 PM.
              Chance favors the prepared mind.

              -Louis Pasteur

              Comment


              • Ratatatat
                Ratatatat commented
                Editing a comment
                I forgot to add one of the ranger tasks in the North Country park: there were several backcountry campsites that had high-tech outhouses with composting toilets. The idea was human waste wouldn't have to get pumped out because of the composting but the composting only worked if only human waste was put in the toilet. Despite polite signs asking people not to put trash in the toilets, guess what? They still put trash in the toilets. So every two weeks or so, someone got assigned to go fish out any non-fecal matter objects in the tanks. Tampons, used rubbers, beer bottles, beanie weinie cans, on and on, covered in hot yuck had to be hand-picked and bagged and then hiked out for disposal. Who got to do this?? The GS-5 seasonals, of course!

              • tanksoldier
                tanksoldier commented
                Editing a comment
                Yep, but it depends on your perspective. If you’re willing to live in a tent for free, like the pro climbers who live all season at the base of El Capitan waiting for a paying rescue mission just so you can spend a summer climbing El Capitan every day (Dad did that for a few summers before I came along), then a ranger station made up of four squatter cabins pushed together front-door to back-door with an out house and mousetraps in every room doesn’t seem so bad.

                Yes, the NPS cares very little about most employees; yes, stupid decisions are made as they are everywhere; yes, pay sucks and true LE retirement is unlikely. If those things are priorities, absolutely look elsewhere. Dad eventually realized that he was never going to get picked up as permanent staff and moved on... he had a family to support now after all... but for a while there, when his priorities were aligned with what the NPS offered, it was his perfect life.

              • Ratatatat
                Ratatatat commented
                Editing a comment
                I get all that. For a few years, the NPS ranger gig aligned with my life as well. Everything I owned fit in the back of a Toyota truck and I wanted nothing out of life but new adventures and some good times. I made several great friends during this period and rafted rivers in Idaho, hunted elk in Oregon, and got so drunk in Jackson Hole once I peed my pants in the town square. I could write a book about it all... maybe someday I will. BUT: also grateful to have moved on to other things, especially now as I sit here enjoying my GS-13 annuity, something I would've never seen with NPS...
                Last edited by Ratatatat; 02-24-2020, 06:59 AM.

            • #9
              "My recommendation, to anyone looking for a career in LE, is save yourself a mountain of frustration and grief and avoid any agency that is half arse about it."

              Pretty much all of federal LE is half-arsed, would you agree? Which federal agencies, if any, aren't?


              Comment


              • #10
                No, I wouldn’t agree. Many agencies are primarily LE oriented. For others, LE is a niche... a small component of a larger non-LE mission.

                Like the old British saying goes, ‘If you’re in it for a penny, you’re in it for a pound.’ Same goes for LE...

                Chance favors the prepared mind.

                -Louis Pasteur

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
                  No, I wouldn’t agree. Many agencies are primarily LE oriented. For others, LE is a niche... a small component of a larger non-LE mission.

                  Like the old British saying goes, ‘If you’re in it for a penny, you’re in it for a pound.’ Same goes for LE...
                  Agreed, I would not agree either. Most OIGs even are way more LE oriented than DOI agencies.

                  As for the OP, yes, you will need to do LMPT. LMPT is almost the same thing as UPTP but with cooler toys, so don't be too sad about it... that off road lab they do is quite cool.

                  Comment

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