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  • Time to stir up the pot a bit.

    I was a cop from 1971 to 1995. Worked uniform for 13 years, plain clothes for 11 years. Retired as a small town chief.

    One of my pet peeves has always been uniforms and accessories displayed. Badge and name tag, okay in my book. A shoulder patch identifying the agency is okay. A national flag doesn't offend my sensibilities. In larger agencies there can be some benefits from rank insignia (sergeant stripes, lieutenant or captain bars, etc) so it is clear to everyone who is in charge. Beyond these things I find myself wondering what is necessary or operationally desirable, and what is pure nonsense.

    I have seen so many agencies, and individual officers, who seem to think that projecting the image of a banana republic general is "cool". Collar insignia, marksmanship medals, fancy chains with whistles, it seems that the more accessories that can be added the better the cop or greater the authority.

    I see cops with duty belts loaded down with more extraneous gear than I ever carried as an airborne combat infantryman in Vietnam. In recent decades BDU trousers and combat boots (sometimes bloused like a paratrooper's boots) seem to have become the norm in many areas. External body armor is becoming fairly common (not the ballistic vests worn under a uniform shirt, but more like military issue stuff).

    Tacti-Cool seems to have become the new rule. Robo-Cop appears to be the new role model. Standing apart from the community (over and above?) seems to be the goal, rather than presenting ones self as a member of the community prepared to serve and protect. "Don't mess with me!" seems to have replaced "firm, fair, and friendly" for this next generation of cops.

    I suppose I have made my opinions clear enough. Feel free to jump in with your comments.

  • #2
    I'll take the opposite approach. My friend's department/agency doesn't allow handgun flashlights, or flashlights that mount onto an issued AR15/M4. The flashlight policy is ridiculous, because they expect him to be able to operate the rifle while using the approved flashlights (which do not mount to the rifle). Load bearing vests should be allowed, because they create a more even distribution of weight, lessening the potentiality of lower back pain.

    Comment


    • #3
      Wear all that combat gear and look “cool”. Lose sight of your mission and create problems in some communities, not so “cool”.

      Im sure someone will be along shortly to post how dangerous the job is and that they NEED Level 4 armor, molle gear, multiple mag pouches, slung ARs (that they rarely train with), 40 TQs because...AS...helmets because...helmets...etc...etc...etc.

      Now go home and get your shine box!

      Comment


      • #4
        Guys are wearing rifle plates on duty? I keep a plate carrier in the trunk with some AR mags and a IFAK attached but I couldn't imagine wearing that all day
        Last edited by Saluki89; 12-02-2019, 01:28 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Oh come on, don't you want your troops to look like a North Korean General?

          1365090514North-Korean-Generals[1].jpg
          Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

          Comment


          • #6
            It's no longer about what is sensible, it's what makes you look tactiCOOL!
            "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived."- George S. Patton Jr.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Saluki89 View Post
              Guys are wearing rifle plates on duty? I keep a plate carrier in the trunk with some AR mags and a IFAK attached but I couldn't imagine wearing that all day
              If you are describing your active shooter kit, you don't need an IFAK on it- nobody's gonna care about minor boo-boos in the middle of a gunfight. You SHOULD however, definitely have a BOK attached to your plate carrier, stocked with several CATs, chest seals, QuikClot, Israeli bandage, penny-cutter trauma shears, and stuff like that
              Last edited by Aidokea; 12-02-2019, 06:19 PM.

              Comment


              • Saluki89
                Saluki89 commented
                Editing a comment
                This is what I have attached to my plate carrier

                https://uspatriottactical.com/readym...QaAuGbEALw_wcB

                Plus a RATS in my pocket at all times

              • Saluki89
                Saluki89 commented
                Editing a comment
                I had a CAT on my rifle stock like all the cool youtubers but one of the plastic clips broke

              • Aidokea
                Aidokea commented
                Editing a comment
                That's more than just an IFAK. That contains the elements of. BOK in addition to some other stuff. They are marketing it as an "E-FAK".
                Last edited by Aidokea; 12-02-2019, 04:33 PM.

            • #8
              Some places have gotten crazy with the external carriers. I didn't care for them at all until recently. We've ordered some new vest carriers that mimick the uniform shirts we got.

              I don't care for anything else on the uniform either. But I think earned, issued or awarded ribbons etc are OK on the class A uniform for special events.

              A lot of the newer officers are in to that stuff and wil move to departments that do allow the beards and tacticool gear.

              Comment


              • #9
                Remember, if you fall while wearing that many medals, their weight may make it impossible to get up again.

                minsk-belarusseptember-10-2017-halfmarathon-260nw-741626536.jpg
                Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                Comment


                • #10
                  Really cool looking, but if you fall over while wearing it, will you wind up like a June Bug on its back and not be able to get up?

                  molle.jpg
                  Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    I've seen it too. Officers who look like they are raiding a cave in Tora Bora when they roll up on a parking complaint

                    Bonus points when

                    The officer is part-time and/or the agency is a known "last chance PD" with no psych exam and a "BI" that consists of running an NCIC check for active warrants

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      35 years ago I worked for an agency that did not issue jump suits and had no written standards for them. There was a particular assignment that had a tremendous potential to get your uniform very dirty on a daily basis, so the 18 officers assigned to it took it upon themselves to go out and buy their own washable jump suits. At first no one said anything and it was great initiative on their part, however, none of them got their heads together to decide on a single standard for the jumpsuit. Instead, each one purchased whichever jumpsuit they thought looked prettiest on them. Eventually, we had 18 guys, all working for the same agency, but who looked like they were wearing 18 different uniforms. When they began to look like Coxey's Army, they were told to go back into uniform.

                      Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Good responses. I never expected to change anyone's mind, just wanted to see what others might think on these subjects.

                        OK, I am an old guy. Lots of things I know nothing about. Never heard of IFAK, BOK, CATs, RATS, Israeli bandages, penny cutter trauma shears, and lots of other things. I understand QuikClot (wish we had that stuff in Vietnam) and chest seals (we trained on handling sucking chest wounds and I have done so in combat). Given today's population and its communicable diseases and drug usage, I think disposable rubber gloves are a pretty good idea.

                        Two tours in Vietnam, wounded 5 times (4 times by hostile fire, once by USAF close air support with strong emphasis on close, they hit my whole team). I have plugged more sucking chest wounds than some ER personnel. I have packed and bandaged abdominal wounds. I have stopped arterial bleeding with my fingers. I have done tourniquets with boot laces. I have performed an emergency tracheotomy with a pocket knife. I have loaded body bags on evac helicopters. I can tell you that no body armor will stop rifle or machinegun fire, and my steel helmet did little to protect me from a penetrating injury that tore off a chunk of my scalp and fractured my skull. I have given blood by direct transfusion in field conditions (left me dizzy for hours, probably two units done with a hand pump by a medic).

                        Followed that with 24 years as a cop. Slashed with a razor once. Stabbed with a knife once. Shot in the leg once. Run over intentionally by a '63 Chevrolet Impala (big ouch). Thrown off the balcony of a two-story apartment building once. Manned a roadblock intercepting armed robbery suspects and fired both 12-gauge and .357 magnum into the engine compartment as the car slammed into our roadblock. Splinted broken arms and legs and bandaged a hundred or more wounds while waiting for ambulances to arrive. Delivered 3 babies on duty.

                        My duty belt carried a holstered handgun, extra ammo, handcuffs, nightstick/baton carrier, and (in later years) a portable radio. Usually, not always, had a 12-gauge riot gun in a locked rack inside the car. Sometimes carried a US M1 .30 caliber carbine locked in the trunk (only took it out once, never had to fire it on duty). Worked solo patrol in a city of 300,000, worked solo detective assignments in the city, worked as an investigator covering 25,000 square miles of my state with no back-up and seldom any radio contact in many areas (got chased off an Indian reservation once by two truckloads of young guys with deer rifles), ran a police department in a small town with crime rates triple the national average.

                        Sorry boys and girls, but when I see some of the nonsense you kids are wearing and carrying around every day it makes me want to laugh. Then I start reading some of the posts about "tactical" this and that and all I can do is shake my head.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          I started a threat a while back about "bling" on a uniform. The responses seemed to be pretty mixed. Personally, on a day-to-day duty uniform, I don't see any need for "bling" (metal badges, collar brass, whistle chains, award pins, etc)...reserve those for your Class A special event uniforms and restrict day-to-day to a sew-on badge, patches, and sew-on rank insignia.

                          The "tacti-cool" debate is a different story. Yes, it can be taken WAAAAY too far (and departments should consider that), but molle carriers should absolutely be permitted for patrol use. My department is headed by what's politely described as an "old school administration"...we went BACK to leather gear from nylon when my current chief took over! After years of wrangling, he permitted molle carriers and the difference is HUGE. I simply moved the heavy stuff off of my belt and onto my molle vest and the comfort difference and pressure off of my hips from the lessened weight of the duty belt totally justifies it. And, just for the record, I work in a small town and have had MAYBE two citizens even notice when we started with the molle vests.

                          As for uniforms themselves, it's 2019, we shouldn't be wearing 1950's wool or 1970's polyester anymore. We carry alot of stuff...much more than the officers of yesteryear did...and having extra pockets isn't a sin. It's also not a sin for officers to be permitted to wear clothing that's quick-dry and [gasp!] comfortable. I'm all for "tradition" IF it serves a purpose...tradition for the sake of tradition (especially when it sacrifices common sense) is just wrong.

                          I've always said, if you come and solve their problems, most citizens wouldn't notice if you were wearing a squeaky nose and clown shoes.
                          Last edited by Bing_Oh; 12-02-2019, 11:26 PM.
                          "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                          -Friedrich Nietzsche

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by retired1995 View Post
                            Good responses. I never expected to change anyone's mind, just wanted to see what others might think on these subjects.

                            OK, I am an old guy. Lots of things I know nothing about. Never heard of IFAK, BOK, CATs, RATS, Israeli bandages, penny cutter trauma shears, and lots of other things. I understand QuikClot (wish we had that stuff in Vietnam) and chest seals (we trained on handling sucking chest wounds and I have done so in combat). Given today's population and its communicable diseases and drug usage, I think disposable rubber gloves are a pretty good idea.

                            Two tours in Vietnam, wounded 5 times (4 times by hostile fire, once by USAF close air support with strong emphasis on close, they hit my whole team). I have plugged more sucking chest wounds than some ER personnel. I have packed and bandaged abdominal wounds. I have stopped arterial bleeding with my fingers. I have done tourniquets with boot laces. I have performed an emergency tracheotomy with a pocket knife. I have loaded body bags on evac helicopters. I can tell you that no body armor will stop rifle or machinegun fire, and my steel helmet did little to protect me from a penetrating injury that tore off a chunk of my scalp and fractured my skull. I have given blood by direct transfusion in field conditions (left me dizzy for hours, probably two units done with a hand pump by a medic).

                            Followed that with 24 years as a cop. Slashed with a razor once. Stabbed with a knife once. Shot in the leg once. Run over intentionally by a '63 Chevrolet Impala (big ouch). Thrown off the balcony of a two-story apartment building once. Manned a roadblock intercepting armed robbery suspects and fired both 12-gauge and .357 magnum into the engine compartment as the car slammed into our roadblock. Splinted broken arms and legs and bandaged a hundred or more wounds while waiting for ambulances to arrive. Delivered 3 babies on duty.

                            My duty belt carried a holstered handgun, extra ammo, handcuffs, nightstick/baton carrier, and (in later years) a portable radio. Usually, not always, had a 12-gauge riot gun in a locked rack inside the car. Sometimes carried a US M1 .30 caliber carbine locked in the trunk (only took it out once, never had to fire it on duty). Worked solo patrol in a city of 300,000, worked solo detective assignments in the city, worked as an investigator covering 25,000 square miles of my state with no back-up and seldom any radio contact in many areas (got chased off an Indian reservation once by two truckloads of young guys with deer rifles), ran a police department in a small town with crime rates triple the national average.

                            Sorry boys and girls, but when I see some of the nonsense you kids are wearing and carrying around every day it makes me want to laugh. Then I start reading some of the posts about "tactical" this and that and all I can do is shake my head.
                            To each his own. I mostly wear a shirt and tie to work now in CID. But when i fill the occasional patrol shift I'm carrying handgun, 2x extra mags, taser, 2x cuffs, radio, OC, flashlight and a tourniquet on my duty belt. That doesn't include the other crap I'm stuffing into pants/shirt pockets. I'm not carrying it to stroke my ego. I spent 7+ years in the service with several deployments, and i've had enough of playing military. I carry all this crap on patrol because I've found myself in situations where i've been glad to have those items available in a pinch. I respect your generation for getting the job done with minimal resources/equipment. But if given the choice, I like having tools available to me.

                            Comment

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