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Not what I expected: Murder warrant for ex-officer says victim was holding gun

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  • Not what I expected: Murder warrant for ex-officer says victim was holding gun

    So I've been watching the Ft Worth developments, and to see an officer (or former officer) arrested on probable cause instead of waiting for the grand jury to hear the case is unprecedented to say the least. Once I heard that, I presumed it had to be particularly damning for the officer. Then this bombshell drops: " Murder warrant for ex-officer says victim was holding gun"

    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...236232073.html

    All I can say is that this is going to get very interesting!

  • #2
    Fresh off of the Dallas conviction and in the same metro area? You are surprised by this?
    semper destravit

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    • #3
      I don't understand the murder charge though, AND I didn't understand how they got a murder conviction in the Dallas case. Voluntary manslaughter, yeah, but I don't see where they can prove malice.
      "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
      -Chris Rock

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      • #4
        Originally posted by GangGreen712 View Post
        I don't understand the murder charge though, AND I didn't understand how they got a murder conviction in the Dallas case. Voluntary manslaughter, yeah, but I don't see where they can prove malice.
        The murder conviction in the Dallas case confuses me...I suspect that we'll see that one overturned on appeal.

        The body cam on the Fort Worth case, on the other hand, is...not good.
        "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
        -Friedrich Nietzsche

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        • #5
          Texas law. It’s a murder charge. Malice not required.
          Now go home and get your shine box!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
            Texas law. It’s a murder charge. Malice not required.
            What's the difference between involuntary manslaughter and murder without malice in Texas law?
            "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
            -Chris Rock

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            • #7
              I watched Mike the Cop's and Donut Operator's YouTube videos about this incident, and they both said that it was a bad shoot.

              However, like GangGreen, I can't wrap my head around the specific "murder" charge.

              Must be according to state law, as 3C said.
              It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

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              • #8
                Their arrest warrant looks more like a search warrant to me. If we had to do that for every arrest .... Even I would charge more on a city ordinance summons and send it through city court.

                Both of those cases are tragic on many levels.

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                • #9
                  It's exactly what I was expecting.

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                  • #10
                    New York law has something similar

                    You have Manslaughter which is defined in part as Recklessly (being aware of and consciously disregarding substantial and unjustifiable risk) causing the death of another person

                    Then you have depraved indifference murder which is defined as evincing a depraved indifference to human life he recklessly engages in conduct which causes a grave risk of death to another person

                    It is pretty much up to case law where the line between simple recklessness and depraved indifference is. I imagine it would be something like the difference shooting at a target while your buddy was downrange resetting them and squirrel hunting by shooting at a squirrel as it ran between a crowd of families at a park

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                    • #11
                      I too am having difficulty with this one.

                      Based solely on what's in the media and the warrant, it would appear multiple officers responded to the open door call. Some went to the open door while others covered the house's perimeter in case a bad guy inside bailed through a window or other door. That is a standard and accepted police practice.

                      An officer covering the exterior looks through a window and sees someone pointing a gun at him. He shouts for them to drop the weapon and when they fail to comply, fearing for his own life he fires, killing them.

                      Sadly, the person he shot turned out to be the lawful resident, nonetheless, it would appear the officer had a reasonable fear for his life when he did so and his conduct would appear to be in keeping with Graham v. Conner with respect to use of force.

                      While this is tragic, I am troubled by the fact that the officer was charged with a crime here. I am similarly troubled by the way his Chief of Police laid him out in front of the media, using words and phrases that made it sound almost personal rather than professional. I am further troubled that this has become a "racial incident." If someone is pointing a gun at a police officer, you don't see their skin color, you only see the barrel of their firearm.

                      We'd hardly hear a peep if the homeowner had been White, but in this case, the officer shot someone who society, in all political correctness, has declared to be an endangered species. Even if it was a lawful and justified use of force, society says he must be punished for that. (sigh)


                      Last edited by L-1; 10-16-2019, 05:52 PM.
                      Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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                      • PtownVAMike
                        PtownVAMike commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Very well said

                      • Levithane
                        Levithane commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I agree, this incident has the possibility of turning into a kangaroo court.

                    • #12
                      It’s called APPEASEMENT. Plain and simple.
                      Now go home and get your shine box!

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by L-1 View Post
                        I too am having difficulty with this one.

                        Based solely on what's in the media and the warrant, it would appear multiple officers responded to the open door call. Some went to the open door while others covered the house's perimeter in case a bad guy inside bailed through a window or other door. That is a standard and accepted police practice.

                        An officer covering the exterior looks through a window and sees someone pointing a gun at him. He shouts for them to drop the weapon and when they fail to comply, fearing for his own life he fires, killing them.
                        I'd tend to agree with you except...

                        1) It is also standard and accepted police practice for officers to ANNOUNCE themselves. According to the arrest warrant affidavit two officers were dispatched to the residence. At no point did they announce their presence or identify themselves as police officers. That's a problem when you're entering someone's gated yard in the middle of the night...

                        2) Judging from the body cam footage the victim never had a chance to comply with the officer's orders to "put her hands up" and/or drop the gun because he shot her almost instantaneously.

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by not.in.MY.town View Post

                          I'd tend to agree with you except...

                          1) It is also standard and accepted police practice for officers to ANNOUNCE themselves. According to the arrest warrant affidavit two officers were dispatched to the residence. At no point did they announce their presence or identify themselves as police officers. That's a problem when you're entering someone's gated yard in the middle of the night...

                          2) Judging from the body cam footage the victim never had a chance to comply with the officer's orders to "put her hands up" and/or drop the gun because he shot her almost instantaneously.
                          These are the two issues I noticed when watching the body cam footage, too. I'm not one to Monday Morning Quarterback, and I know even body cam doesn't show everything, but it's difficult one not to have some serious doubts about.
                          "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                          -Friedrich Nietzsche

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by not.in.MY.town View Post
                            1) It is also standard and accepted police practice for officers to ANNOUNCE themselves. According to the arrest warrant affidavit two officers were dispatched to the residence. At no point did they announce their presence or identify themselves as police officers. That's a problem when you're entering someone's gated yard in the middle of the night.
                            I've heard that mentioned a couple of times. My first thought was, even had the officer announced himself prior to entering the yard, is it reasonable to expect someone inside the house to have heard him?

                            Originally posted by not.in.MY.town View Post
                            2) Judging from the body cam footage the victim never had a chance to comply with the officer's orders to "put her hands up" and/or drop the gun because he shot her almost instantaneously.
                            To this I must ask, when as a police officer engaged in the performance of your duties, you are confronted by someone pointing a gun at you and you are in fear of your life, by law or policy, what is the standard amount of time you must wait before firing your weapon at that person? If you give them a command to drop their weapon, by law or policy, how much more time are you mandated to give them before you fire?
                            Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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