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  • #16
    Originally posted by RGDS View Post
    I would imagine a Malheur style occupation of the Capitol but that doesn’t seriously impact the majority of the States, and would be over before it starts.
    The Malheur situation is an excellent template to consider. Nickel version of what happened: two ranchers in Oregon were re-sentenced to four years in prison after pleading guilty arson on federal land. The rub: they had already spent a year in prison but DOJ appealed the sentence as the law they plead guilty to had a five year minimum. A charismatic rancher from Nevada named Ammon Bundy took up their cause and put out 'the call' to take a 'hard stand'. A handful of regional militia groups (III%ers, Pacific Patriot Network, etc) and a few hayseeds from across the country grabbed their ARs and took control of a federal wildlife refuge. Eventually the FBI and Oregon State Police put an end to the occupation (one dead) but for several weeks, the four-deputy Harney County sheriff's office was caught completely off guard by the sudden arrival of dozens of heavily armed militia/sovcit/patriots into their community, looking for a showdown.
    (Side note: POTUS pardoned the two ranchers last summer and they were released from prison, a move which earned much love and respect from militia/sovcit/patriot groups).


    Now imagine if the 'the call' for a 'hard stand' came not from some obscure rancher from Nevada over a legal pickle some obscure rancher in Oregon was in. What if 'the call' comes from the elected leader of the free world and the reason for the hard stand (removal from office.. guns.. religion, etc) strikes a deep chord?
    (Patriot websites and biker groups are currently rallying their members to be in position to heed the call, btw).
    Could it be just a few thousand seditionists roll into DC, make a stand, but it's over before it starts? I suppose.
    Or could the flames spread across the county, and just like the Harney County Sheriff Department, local LE is completely unprepared.
    The big wildcard, in my opinion, is how the military and LEOs would respond to 'the call'. I personally know LEOs who would grab their kits and fall liege to whatever the Tweets tell them to do....
    It is not the well-fed long-haired men that I fear, but the pale and hungry-looking.

    -Julius Ceasar

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
      The big wildcard, in my opinion, is how the military and LEOs would respond to 'the call'. I personally know LEOs who would grab their kits and fall liege to whatever the Tweets tell them to do....[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
      There will be a natural divide among how the mil/LEO types will respond, depending on who's in charge, and which side declares the civil war (that is, whether it's left or right). Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there is a far left president in office. A bill has been passed ordering everyone who owns an AR-15 to turn it in or the government is going to kick down your doors, take it, and either bring you to jail or send you to the afterlife.

      There will be the leftist cops and soldiers who were waiting for this day, and can't wait to get rid of the guns and, if they can put a few holes in defiant right wingers, even better. There will be the mercenary types: "I don't make the law, I have no opinion on the matter, I follow orders and do the job I'm paid to do." There will be the ones who don't agree with it, but bills to pay, mouths to feed, and working towards that retirement overrides principles.

      On the other side, however, will be the resisters. There will be passive resisters; cops that stay on the job and soldiers who stay in the army who conveniently never find anything during searches, tip off those who are under investigation, and subtlety sabotage various efforts to carry out confiscation orders or attack militia groups. And then there will be those who faction off and declare loyalty to the rebels.
      "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
      -Chris Rock

      Comment


      • #18
        Just stop with that what if.

        A law gets passed by Congress that actively violated the 5th Amendment right to property? No. That isn’t going to happen. Seizures in that regard are almost an impossibility.

        This is the garbage that stirs the pot that starts getting the crazies up in arms.
        semper destravit

        Comment


        • Ratatatat
          Ratatatat commented
          Editing a comment
          lol. You don't have to read any of this garbage, you know...

        • RGDS
          RGDS commented
          Editing a comment
          Yea. But if I stop reading these forums, how else will I avoid the ever growing honey do list?

        • Saluki89
          Saluki89 commented
          Editing a comment
          My cold dead hands reeeeeeeeeeee

      • #19
        Originally posted by RGDS View Post
        Just stop with that what if.

        A law gets passed by Congress that actively violated the 5th Amendment right to property? No. That isn’t going to happen. Seizures in that regard are almost an impossibility.

        This is the garbage that stirs the pot that starts getting the crazies up in arms.
        Some of us "crazies" have a different point of view. Some of us "crazies" actually listen to what is proposed and planned by those who would deny us our Constitutional liberties. Some of us "crazies" are genuinely sincere in our love of country and devotion to individual liberty. I happen to be one of those "crazies" and I am:

        1. 11th generation born on this continent (since 1640, or 379 years now)
        2. direct descendent of two Revolutionary War veterans (the house I was born in is situated on land granted to my ancestors in lieu of salary due for their service in the Continental Army
        3. honorably discharged veteran, two tours in Vietnam, Combat Infantryman Badge, Bronze Star, Army Commendation Medal, Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, Purple Heart Medal (4 times), and lots of other fancy crap to wear on Veterans Day. My older brothers are both veterans, my father was a WW2 veteran (shot in the head), my paternal grandfather was a veteran (Army chaplain, gassed in the trenches in France during WW1), my great-great-grandfather was killed in the Civil War less than 40 miles from the family farm where I was born.
        4. honorably retired peace officer (patrolman, detective, investigator, senior investigator, and police chief).
        5. retired small business owner, responsible for providing jobs for a dozen people for over 20 years.
        6. father of two, grandfather of 9, great-grandfather of 4 (with #5 on the way now).
        7. Debt-free millionaire.

        Speaking only for myself, any politician who wants to take away my guns and ammunition may come and knock on my door anytime, and I will give up the ammunition first. My 2 senators and congressman have been given that message directly.

        Arrogant name-calling ****ants with no respect for their country, their heritage, or their constitutional liberties tend to irritate me just a little bit. I won't bother quoting great statesmen responsible for creating this, the finest example of human government ever to grace the face of planet earth, because arrogant jerks won't get the message anyway; they will just stand by and watch as genuine patriotic Americans keep this country free for those who value liberty above rhetoric or politics.

        I have a 5-gallon bucket of coarse sand and a sledge hammer for people like you to sit in the corner with. Self-righteous lecturers who want to dictate to their neighbors how to live their lives. Pound sand!

        Comment


        • VA Dutch
          VA Dutch commented
          Editing a comment
          I like the cut of your jib, sir!!

        • RGDS
          RGDS commented
          Editing a comment
          I especially like when he called me a self righteous lecturer who wants to dictate to my neighbors how to live their lives.

      • #20
        Originally posted by retired1995 View Post
        The preppers and so-called militia groups will probably hunker down in their bunkers and fortified compounds. The rest of us will be faced with mobs of scared, angry, hungry, and violent people.
        I read an article over the weekend which covered the "72 hours to Animal" concept.

        In an nutshell: if the S hits the fan and food and fuel and safety are no longer assured, within 72 hours you can expect the violent hordes to emerge.

        It is not the well-fed long-haired men that I fear, but the pale and hungry-looking.

        -Julius Ceasar

        Comment


        • #21
          Did this theory provide sources or case studies?
          semper destravit

          Comment


          • #22
            Originally posted by RGDS View Post
            Did this theory provide sources or case studies?
            No, but I can think of a few....

            Hurricane Katrina, 2005
            Detroit, 1967
            LA, 1992
            Watts, 1965
            Iraq (endless)
            Syria (endless)
            Yemen (endless)
            Afghanistan (endless)
            Myanmar (endless)
            Libya (endless)
            Somalia (endless)
            Sudan (endless)
            Darfur (endless)
            It is not the well-fed long-haired men that I fear, but the pale and hungry-looking.

            -Julius Ceasar

            Comment


            • #23
              In Detroit, LA (1965), and LA (1992) didn’t involve the collapse of society through a less assured measurement of food, fuel or safety (we could debate safety is a sense of inequality treatment by the .gov).

              The rest of that list fits because none of the governments were inherently stable absent extreme dictatorships.

              * I forgot Katrina. Probably because I agree it totally fits. But as I follow up with: why not Hurricane Sandy? The recent Polar Vortex in the Great Lakes Region? Why not San Francisco Bay in the 1989 Earthquake?
              Last edited by RGDS; 10-14-2019, 03:50 PM.
              semper destravit

              Comment


              • #24
                Originally posted by RGDS View Post
                In Detroit, LA (1965), and LA (1992) didn’t involve the collapse of society through a less assured measurement of food, fuel or safety (we could debate safety is a sense of inequality treatment by the .gov).

                The rest of that list fits because none of the governments were inherently stable absent extreme dictatorships.

                * I forgot Katrina. Probably because I agree it totally fits. But as I follow up with: why not Hurricane Sandy? The recent Polar Vortex in the Great Lakes Region? Why not San Francisco Bay in the 1989 Earthquake?

                So with Hurricane Sandy, SF earthquake, the recent Houston flood, and many other calamities, there was a quick and unified response from federal/state/local agencies, charitable organizations, corporations, utilities, and big hearted citizens. FEMA money poured in, LE agencies and the National Guard responded en masse, the Red Cross brought water and food, and the Cajun Navy brought their bass fishing boats. Utility companies began to repair infrastructure without fear of rooftop snipers or roadside bombs. No one cared about anyone's political views or allegiances.

                Contrast those scenarios to a widespread civil disorder with political violence, where factions split over allegiances and territories, where power grids, highways, food/fuel delivery, and even emergency responders become targets of asymmetrical attack. Now consider how universally dependent modern society is on easy access to life's necessities (see chart below), and how ill prepared millions would be if suddenly the stores ran out of food because Militia A took control of the freeway system one state over and commandeered every Piggly Wiggly and Food Lion truck for their benefit.

                It doesn't take much of a leap to see how by Day Three of such a disturbance, large swaths of a hungry and armed population would reject the norms of civil society and resort to brutish measures like highway robbery, home invasions, and laying siege to schools, hospitals, warehouses, and wherever else they think caches of food may exist....





                [IMG]https://miro.medium.com/max/615/1*8Ghjo3WZmB-02X7x4Ppabg.jpeg[/IMG]1_8Ghjo3WZmB-02X7x4Ppabg.jpg
                It is not the well-fed long-haired men that I fear, but the pale and hungry-looking.

                -Julius Ceasar

                Comment


                • #25
                  Originally posted by RGDS View Post
                  Did this theory provide sources or case studies?
                  I am glad that you caught that:

                  I especially like when he called me a self righteous lecturer who wants to dictate to my neighbors how to live their lives.

                  Now stop being a *****.

                  Comment


                  • #26
                    retired1995, You quote my post in full and and insulted me in it and I am being a *****?

                    Really? Look. I get you don’t like liberals and you probably don’t like centrists and the fact I am from California probably makes your skin crawl but wow, you need to relax more.

                    I certainly was not referencing you, nor did I quote anything from you, when I called other individuals crazy. You were a Chief of Police for god sakes and this is how you react to people? I never once thought to include you or most of the people on this site because most of the people are normal people mostly working as cops..or agents of foreign governments (that China thread a few months ago).

                    So, if your Post was rhetorical, perhaps you should not have quoted me or otherwise made abundantly clear that your soliloquy was not directed at me.

                    I fully recognize I am not changing your mind on anything.
                    semper destravit

                    Comment


                    • #27
                      Originally posted by RGDS View Post
                      retired1995, You quote my post in full and and insulted me in it and I am being a *****?

                      Really? Look. I get you don’t like liberals and you probably don’t like centrists and the fact I am from California probably makes your skin crawl but wow, you need to relax more.

                      I certainly was not referencing you, nor did I quote anything from you, when I called other individuals crazy. You were a Chief of Police for god sakes and this is how you react to people? I never once thought to include you or most of the people on this site because most of the people are normal people mostly working as cops..or agents of foreign governments (that China thread a few months ago).

                      So, if your Post was rhetorical, perhaps you should not have quoted me or otherwise made abundantly clear that your soliloquy was not directed at me.

                      I fully recognize I am not changing your mind on anything.


                      A lot of us on here don't like liberals...or snarky centrists.

                      Comment


                      • #28
                        Originally posted by beachcop05 View Post



                        A lot of us on here don't like liberals...or snarky centrists.
                        I especially dislike arrogant jerks who approach any discussion with an attitude of superior intellect or moral position.

                        The Constitution of the United States is the underlying foundation of all laws, with guarantees of individual liberty to be supported and defended by every elected and appointed public official. These are not privileges, to be exercised only with a bureaucrat's permission, and they are certainly not suggestions.

                        Those who accept election or appointment and swear the oath, then start acting like rulers over the public deserve to be removed from office by any means the public finds necessary to defend their liberties.

                        Yes, RGDS, my earlier comments were directed to you, as well as all the others who, when given an inch (authority) start believing themselves to be rulers. My comments were also directly in line with the subject matter of this thread (i.e.: Civil War 2.0: Is your agency ready?).

                        I am also convinced that I am not changing your mind about anything. Modern American Liberalism exists as a means by which the self-perceived liberal may believe himself superior, morally and intellectually, to the common man. The danger arises when the liberal decides that, because he is superior, morally and intellectually, it is his duty to manage the lives of other (less blessed) people.

                        Comment


                        • RGDS
                          RGDS commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I totally am an arrogant jerk. No argument there.

                      • #29
                        Originally posted by RGDS View Post
                        I agree he appears to trying to incite violence.

                        but the process is the process. Who is they when 2/3s of a republican led Senate convict him? They would his HIS people’s representatives. They are going to pull out a ram’s horn for that? That’s pretty unhinged.

                        Impeachment is pretty toothless. Clinton had it and not much happened after his trial ended without a conviction. So #45 gets impeached. Nothing substantially changes.

                        I would imagine a Malheur style occupation of the Capitol but that doesn’t seriously impact the majority of the States, and would be over before it starts.
                        process?!
                        Pfffffffft

                        Impeachment..FOR WHAT?

                        Comment


                        • RGDS
                          RGDS commented
                          Editing a comment
                          All this talk about the constitution and you scoff at the process laid out in our most important document?

                          If you asking me what President Trump is going to be impeached for, then I gotta ask you.

                          Does my name say RDGS (I) from the Xth District of California? Because I am pretty sure I am not a member of Congress. So go ask them.

                          Impeachment isn’t that bad and shows more about the party pushing it then the alleged violations. WHEN President Trump is impeached and the issue is brought to the Senate for a TRIAL, what will Mitch do? That’s where the real issue is.
                          Last edited by RGDS; 10-18-2019, 11:17 AM.

                        • hold the air
                          hold the air commented
                          Editing a comment
                          ITs all politics. Pencil Neck and the old bag have nothing. Donny is going to win again in 2020.

                          Mark my words

                      • #30
                        Originally posted by GangGreen712 View Post

                        There will be a natural divide among how the mil/LEO types will respond, depending on who's in charge, and which side declares the civil war (that is, whether it's left or right). Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there is a far left president in office. A bill has been passed ordering everyone who owns an AR-15 to turn it in or the government is going to kick down your doors, take it, and either bring you to jail or send you to the afterlife.

                        There will be the leftist cops and soldiers who were waiting for this day, and can't wait to get rid of the guns and, if they can put a few holes in defiant right wingers, even better. There will be the mercenary types: "I don't make the law, I have no opinion on the matter, I follow orders and do the job I'm paid to do." There will be the ones who don't agree with it, but bills to pay, mouths to feed, and working towards that retirement overrides principles.

                        On the other side, however, will be the resisters. There will be passive resisters; cops that stay on the job and soldiers who stay in the army who conveniently never find anything during searches, tip off those who are under investigation, and subtlety sabotage various efforts to carry out confiscation orders or attack militia groups. And then there will be those who faction off and declare loyalty to the rebels.
                        80%+ of the military and Police will never do it.

                        Not going to happen.

                        400 to 600 million guns. 75 million "sporting rifles" (estimation)

                        Comment


                        • Levithane
                          Levithane commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I would also bet on that the majority of the public would not comply with a mandatory buy back, or confiscation program.

                        • hold the air
                          hold the air commented
                          Editing a comment
                          no they wont. exactly! something like 4% participation rate in NY when they banned em, and 13%in CT.

                          NOT going to happen!

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