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  • iMarkVideo
    replied
    Originally posted by tiny View Post
    If you could find that story, that would be great, as I'd like to see why the judge made the decision he did, because just having the girl attacked (and I'm not lessening her injuries, just looking from a purely legal, technical standpoint), while technically trespassing, especially if she bypassed a fence, I can find no legal means for ordering the dog destroyed, under Virginia law. I even checked the code for James City, and it is exactly the same as what I posted earlier (the language is from the state statute, which every locality I have looked at, adopts the same language). Now, if the dog had been declared dangerous before by the courts, that is another story, they can order the destruction of the animal, but not on the first declaration of being dangerous. Now the owner's may have asked the court to have the dog destroyed, and the court instructed animal control to do so, but I don't see where the court could order the dog destroyed without the owner's consent.
    Oh, and as an aside, as a deputy for the Sheriff's Office I work for, I do alot of animal control calls, and have had several dangerous dog cases I've prosecuted, so I would like to see what the judge actually based his/her decision on, to check precedent.

    Hi tiny,

    Here's the link.

    http://www.dailypress.com/dp-28098sy...dp-widget-news

    Also, as you have educated me on the codes in VA, thanks. I aslo thank you for defending 'Pit Bulls" as most people think they are an actual breed.

    Omega,

    "I'm a firm believer that if a dog bites once, they're done." If you are a true dog lover there is a dog that will bite and a dog that is dangerous. All dogs "may bite". Just because a dog bites once, doesn't mean they are dangerous. What, as humans we forget is that they are domesticated "WILD" animals. If you own one we take a responsibility to educate ourselves to their natural born tendencies and accept that. Work with it and train them. Most, not all, dogs can and will be happy to adhear to human lifestyles. But we can't forget that they are naturally wild animals. Dogs like love. They are also pack animals. Bitting is a natural defense for dogs. They bit for defense, they bite while playing and they love bite. Some bites (not agressive, but passive) from a dog are a positive thing. So if a dog bites, there is usually a reason and it usually lays with the owner, not the breed nor the dog itself. Some, just like POS humans are just that. But in both cases it's rare.

    My Pit was an adoption. They found her chained to a tree in a snowstorm. The temperature was, according to the report, 15 degrees and windy, she had no shelter. But we took her home and she has been the most lovable, loyal dog I have ever had.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    [QUOTE=tiny;881740][QUOTE=Omega17632;881592]

    Out of how many dogs have attacked humans, how many have you heard were labs, or golden retrievers versus pit bulls???

    "The dog that sends more children under the age of three to the emergency room each year is a cocker spaniel."....This is one statement that was used in one of my speaches in college on pitbulls.

    Leave a comment:


  • tiny
    replied
    [QUOTE=Omega17632;881592]I'm a dog lover also, I have huskies....but let's be honest here....

    Out of how many dogs have attacked humans, how many have you heard were labs, or golden retrievers versus pit bulls??? I have seen first hand, very well loved and well raised pit bulls turn on their owners.... But hey that's just me.Without getting into a long, drawn out debate, let me just say it is a very skewed report, when it comes to "pit bull" attacks...there are 19 breeds of dog that fall under the label "pit bull"...that is why when you see the "stats", they say "pit bull type", not pit bull...give the dogs a fair shake, and classify them by each breed, as the other dogs are, and the number goes way down. Second, last month our unit (4 deputies) responded to 500+/- animal calls...not one bite call involved any breed from the pit type list...the number one breed involved was black labs, one of which I had to shoot in the caller's front yard, when it attacked me. I was also bit 3 times on the leg by a border collie, and spent 4 hours in the ER getting that taken care of. The other bites worked involved daschunds, beagles, hounds, labs, retrievers, and rotties...again not one pit type. Out of the approximately 30 bite calls/attacks on humans that we did, most of them requiring trips to the ER - one bad enough the lady was there for 3 days (and that was a beagle that attacked her) - guess how many were reported by the media? NONE, ZERO, ZILCH. Please, don't believe everything you see or hear from the media. Now, I am NOT saying that no pit type has never attacked or bit anyone, but they get a very bad rap, that is undeserved. And while I understand that you say you saw a "pit" attack with your own eyes (I don't disbelieve you), I've seen the above mentioned breeds attack as well, but that does not mean they are dangerous breeds.

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  • Omega17632
    replied
    I'm a dog lover also, I have huskies....but let's be honest here....

    Out of how many dogs have attacked humans, how many have you heard were labs, or golden retrievers versus pit bulls??? I have seen first hand, very well loved and well raised pit bulls turn on their owners.... But hey that's just me.

    I'm a firm believer that if a dog bites once, they're done. My 3 year old walks up to my dogs while they're eating, put his hand in their food and all they do is stop eating. I'm also a firm believer that all dogs belong on a leash when outdoors (except dogs in competitions or running around when playing). My dogs don't leave my property off-leash because I know no matter how well behaved and friendly they are, I'm responsible for their actions.


    I may be law enforcement, however, if someone else's dog comes on my property and attacks my dog, I guarantee that other dog will not live through that attack!

    Leave a comment:


  • tiny
    replied
    Originally posted by iMarkVideo View Post
    Hi tiny,

    Thanks for the research.

    We have some very wierd juridictions here. Even though I have a Williamsburg Address, and my mail says Williamsburg, I live in James City. We have Williamsburg, James City and York County Share "Williamsburgs" name. They are seperate juridictions with thier own school Disticts and Police departments but share the same court and name. But not the same ordinances.

    My post was actually refering to an incedent here (not mine) that a 10 year old child was malled by a dog after she went to get the ball in her neighbors yard. The court found the dog dangerous and ordered the dog put down.

    I will try to find that story and post it here. Thanks.
    If you could find that story, that would be great, as I'd like to see why the judge made the decision he did, because just having the girl attacked (and I'm not lessening her injuries, just looking from a purely legal, technical standpoint), while technically trespassing, especially if she bypassed a fence, I can find no legal means for ordering the dog destroyed, under Virginia law. I even checked the code for James City, and it is exactly the same as what I posted earlier (the language is from the state statute, which every locality I have looked at, adopts the same language). Now, if the dog had been declared dangerous before by the courts, that is another story, they can order the destruction of the animal, but not on the first declaration of being dangerous. Now the owner's may have asked the court to have the dog destroyed, and the court instructed animal control to do so, but I don't see where the court could order the dog destroyed without the owner's consent.
    Oh, and as an aside, as a deputy for the Sheriff's Office I work for, I do alot of animal control calls, and have had several dangerous dog cases I've prosecuted, so I would like to see what the judge actually based his/her decision on, to check precedent.

    Leave a comment:


  • iMarkVideo
    replied
    Hi tiny,

    Thanks for the research.

    We have some very wierd juridictions here. Even though I have a Williamsburg Address, and my mail says Williamsburg, I live in James City. We have Williamsburg, James City and York County Share "Williamsburgs" name. They are seperate juridictions with thier own school Disticts and Police departments but share the same court and name. But not the same ordinances.

    My post was actually refering to an incedent here (not mine) that a 10 year old child was malled by a dog after she went to get the ball in her neighbors yard. The court found the dog dangerous and ordered the dog put down.

    I will try to find that story and post it here. Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • tiny
    replied
    Originally posted by iMarkVideo View Post
    Also,


    This thread made me do research. For example:

    I have a fenced yard. My neighbor is playing ball with someone. The ball accidentally goes over MY fence. HE/SHE decides to go get the ball in MY yard over MY fence. Despite warning signs "Beware if DOG" and the dog barking......He/She gets attacked by my dog defending his/her proporety. My dog gets PUT DOWN. It's our law here.
    Where did you find that law? I checked the city code for Williamsburg, and there is nothing that says that, that I can find. As for VA state law (which also happenes to be the statue used verbatim for Williamsburg City Code):

    (c) When animals are not to be considered dangerous or vicious. No canine or canine crossbreed shall be found to be a dangerous dog solely because it is a particular breed. No animal shall be found to be a dangerous dog or vicious dog if the threat, injury or damage was sustained by a person who was (i) committing, at the time, a crime upon the premises occupied by the animal's owner or custodian, (ii) committing, at the time, a willful trespass or other tort upon the premises occupied by the animal's owner or custodian or (iii) provoking, tormenting, or physically abusing the animal, or can be shown to have repeatedly provoked, tormented, abused, or assaulted the animal at other times. No police dog which was engaged in the performance of its duties as such at the time of the acts complained of shall be found to be a dangerous dog or a vicious dog. No animal which, at the time of the acts complained of, was responding to pain or injury, or was protecting itself, its kennel, its offspring, or its owner or owner's property, shall be found to be a dangerous dog or a vicious dog.
    This would save you and your dog, if the scenario you posted, happened. On a side note, check with you own legal counsel, but I've heard some attornies that have the opinion that a "Beware of Dog" sign actually increses your liability, because you are acknowledging that you know your dog is likely to injure someone. Remember, the law is legal, not logical.

    Leave a comment:


  • willowdared
    replied
    Originally posted by leopold99 View Post
    i see i've made an unpopular decision.


    but . . .

    i must ask, how many innocent animals have you murdered?
    Nice try toots.

    Leave a comment:


  • leopold99
    replied
    i see i've made an unpopular decision.


    but . . .
    Originally posted by willowdared
    As a person raised on a farm.......we call people like that egg-sucking dogs.
    i must ask, how many innocent animals have you murdered?

    Leave a comment:


  • iMarkVideo
    replied
    Also,

    we have to remember that animals are animals. They don't have the reasoning humans do. Most people treat domestic animals as if they are humans. They are not. And most humans don't take the time to understand that.

    While I love animals, I also understand that they are their own culture and I respect that. Some of the laws are, in my opinion, too harsh on animals as they are written as though the animals understand the law.

    This thread made me do research. For example:

    I have a fenced yard. My neighbor is playing ball with someone. The ball accidentally goes over MY fence. HE/SHE decides to go get the ball in MY yard over MY fence. Despite warning signs "Beware if DOG" and the dog barking......He/She gets attacked by my dog defending his/her proporety. My dog gets PUT DOWN. It's our law here.

    Leave a comment:


  • iMarkVideo
    replied
    kateye is right,

    While I don't like other dogs attacking other dogs. In my previous post, I stated that if both dogs were on a leash, this would not have happened. I believe in owner responsibility.

    I was rightfully corrected by tiny. It is a local problem. I did research and in my town, the ordanince says that all dogs in a subdivision of 3 or more properties has to be contianed (inside, caged etc) or restrained (leash). The only exceptions are properties zoned for farms. This is not true for other towns.

    My point is that I think my local law makes since. As much as you may trust a dog, there is no telling a reaction. I have read about police k-9's suddenly turning after professional training.

    It's not the breed. I hate it that pits have a negative reputation. My pit is scared of kids. She is very submissive and the most lovable dog I have ever owned (she is my 9th dog).

    Pits are trained, from ***hole humans to fight. They are not born that way. I happen to live in the next county (9 miles) over from Surry, where Michael Vicks (Atlanta Falcons Qback, do google search if you haven't herd) cousin was accused of having 67 Pits and dog fighting equipment in his back yard.

    The most visiuos dog I have ever owned was a 6 pound Chihuahua.

    By the way the Pit Bull is not even a breed. It's a name given to any Terrier that will fight in the 'PIT" They were moslty Bull dogs. Hence the name.

    Leave a comment:


  • willowdared
    replied
    Originally posted by leopold99 View Post
    you are within your rights to control the rat population.

    to control rats you slip some rat poison into a wad of hamburger and put it where rats will find it. no more rats.
    As a person raised on a farm.......we call people like that egg-sucking dogs.

    Leave a comment:


  • djack16
    replied
    Poisoning an annoying animal is downright wrong. Annoyances are one thing. Immediate threat to safety is another.

    Leave a comment:


  • djack16
    replied
    Willow, I agree. Probably not a one call fix. I believe LE response was dismissed at the beginning of the call and I was forwarded to the unhelpful animal control after. Basically I was told it was my problem. Not a really good situation to put the public in IMO.

    About the breed though; I may have my prejudgment of pitbulls but this dog was actually harrassing my grandmother by barking and showing his teeth at her. It was highly unusual. I've never actually seen or heard of a situation where a dog would try so hard to get into a property only to harrass the occupants.

    Leave a comment:


  • katzeyze
    replied
    Originally posted by leopold99 View Post
    you are within your rights to control the rat population.

    to control rats you slip some rat poison into a wad of hamburger and put it where rats will find it. no more rats.
    THere is a difference between vermin and pets. This man may not have known his dog would react this way. Just becuase it's a pit bull doesn't mean that it is a mean dog. I should know, I own one. I have taken my dog out on walks and when she sees other dogs she sniffs and acts like most dogs. One time another dog approached her (it was off leash) and HOLY MOSES. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I'd have never believed that my dog had it in her to react that way.

    As it was said earlier punish the deed not the breed. The dog can't help that it's owner should be limited to only owning houseplants. I won't stand up on a soap box championing the rights of Pit Bulls, but I will add that ANY dog of ANY size of ANY breed can attack. My brothers girlfriend was recently attack by an American Bull dog and I have a permanent scar on a finger as the result of an annoying little dog the size of a football that thought it was acceptable to take a chunk of my flesh.

    I would advidse against putting rat poison into a wad of hamburger as some other innocent animal (including your own) might be poisoned.

    I would guess that your best of action would be to file a report a report with your local agency and arm yourself with the report number if you decide to take your neighbor to court for reimbursement of veterinary bills.

    Leave a comment:

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