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  • Jeffrey Epstein?

    Does anyone with a background in corrections have a rational explanation for how he was able to off himself while in the Metropolitan Correctional Center?

  • #2
    By death..?
    Now go home and get your shine box!

    Comment


    • Levithane
      Levithane commented
      Editing a comment
      The current explanation is that he was able to hang himself. Mind you he was previously on suicide watch, and for whatever reason they took him off of it. Just curious if someone who has knowledge working in the correctional setting could provide insight why this was able to occur.

    • Bing_Oh
      Bing_Oh commented
      Editing a comment
      If I were to make a totally random guess (since I have no direct knowledge about that particular jail), I'd say the answer is overworked and understaffed corrections employees. It's not the least bit uncommon for jails to be heavily understaffed.

    • Levithane
      Levithane commented
      Editing a comment
      Bing_Oh thank you for providing an explanation that isn't riddled with tin foil hat conspiracies. Even if they're understaffed wouldn't there still be increased security on someone high value like that though?

    • FTCOKC61318
      FTCOKC61318 commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm a BOP employee. It's simple. Even though he was taken off suicide watch it doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't still suicidal. I'm sure he just told the Psychologist what they wanted to hear to remove him from his "suicide watch" status. Once off of that status officers are only required to do 30 minute rounds in SHU. Easily enough time to rig up a noose of some sort. In this situation it sounds the officers weren't doing their required rounds so it turned into a double edged sword. I'm sure they won't be employed after the investigation concludes.

  • #3
    How about a strongly written procedure requiring that the officers on that unit physically check on him every 30 minutes (which I understand to be the case). OK, how long does it take to strangle yourself to death after the last corrections officer passes by your cell to check on you?

    Correction officers, detention officers, even social workers are not babysitters. All of those folks follow established policies and procedures. Even if there were orders to monitor the prisoner's every movement via video surveillance that would require assigning at least one officer to no other duty than watching the camera feed. When a highly intelligent detainee can clearly see that his life and career are essentially over, and makes the decision to put an end to himself, there is little chance of stopping that from happening, and certainly not in any way that would pass muster in the courts in regard to individual rights, privacy rights, etc.

    Next up is the question about why anyone is seriously worried about the death of a convicted sex offender with a well-documented history of victimizing under-aged children. For now it is all over, but I'm sure there are civil actions pending against Mr. Epstein's estate that will make headlines for the coming years. Stay tuned for the next episode in this new soap opera.

    Comment


    • Levithane
      Levithane commented
      Editing a comment
      For the record, I'm not upset one bit he's dead. Would have been nice to get him to rat out the other individuals involved in his sick scheme before offing himself.

  • #4
    Suicides happen every day someplace in corrections. If someone wants to die...............you aren't going to stop them.

    On watch precautions the person would be stripped naked given a "suicide smock" (heavy quilted fabric that you can't tear easily) and placed on 5 minute watch...........Many agencies are now placing an INMATE outside the cell to provide a one to one 24/7 watch on a precaution inmate. These inmates are screened and trained by staff psychologists The inmates like this and it takes away some of the "they killed him" talk

    ..Chances of killing yourself is pretty slim in that status. BUT it happens

    I had a guy on my watch kill himself in precautions when he ran full force into the 3/8" steel door head first 6 times before we could gather a team to enter the cell. He died of a server skull fracture and massive brain trauma. The video is sickening to watch. It was shortly after that incident that my agency went to the inmate assistant watcher

    I saw one from another facility that stuffed his THROAT with paper towels...........and tamp them deep into his throat....(it was on video even though the officers didn't make the required visual checks...........they got fired) and he suffocated.


    Hanging is a very common method and it is not necessarily how you think. All it takes is to wrap something around your neck and then suspend yourself by that material.

    Slump forward.............kneel down............anything that will cut off blood flow for a few minutes.

    Ok if he was off suicide watch...................and even people who have history of suicide attempts are NOT kept in watch precautions for very long as they would be interviewed by psychologists within in a couple days of an attempt and NORMALLY be released within a week unless the shrink really thought he was going to do it

    So he was off watch....................that means a 30-60 minute time frame where the prisoner is to be physically checked and seen by staff.

    I had one NOT on watch....again from another facility that rigged a noose that wrapped his wrists behind his back and when he came off his bunk....tightened the wrists to make it appear he was tied up by someone else plus it kept him from saving himself half way through. In that one there was no video except showing the front of the cells....the video WATCHED him enter the cell and no one else went in until he was found hanging..........again some staff lost their jobs on that one.

    All it takes is a good 5 minutes of restriction of blood to the brain to kill you.............................YOU do the math


    High profile inmates might get a little extra handling but the NY Federal Metropolitan Detention Facilty has MUCH MORE high profile clientele than Epstein
    Last edited by Iowa #1603; 08-11-2019, 08:06 PM.
    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

    Comment


    • #5
      Originally posted by retired1995 View Post
      How about a strongly written procedure requiring that the officers on that unit physically check on him every 30 minutes (which I understand to be the case). OK, how long does it take to strangle yourself to death after the last corrections officer passes by your cell to check on you? 6-8 minutes of restricted blood flow will kill the brain

      Correction officers, detention officers, even social workers are not babysitters. All of those folks follow established policies and procedures. Even if there were orders to monitor the prisoner's every movement via video surveillance that would require assigning at least one officer to no other duty than watching the camera feed. When a highly intelligent detainee can clearly see that his life and career are essentially over, and makes the decision to put an end to himself, there is little chance of stopping that from happening, and certainly not in any way that would pass muster in the courts in regard to individual rights, privacy rights, etc.
      VERY little privacy rights in prison

      Next up is the question about why anyone is seriously worried about the death of a convicted sex offender with a well-documented history of victimizing under-aged children. For now it is all over, but I'm sure there are civil actions pending against Mr. Epstein's estate that will make headlines for the coming years. Stay tuned for the next episode in this new soap opera.
      You can also read my response above about the facts of life
      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

      Comment


      • #6
        My department had a young man ( real scumbag ) kill himself in a cell. Of course the family sued and the media didn't mention what a perp he was. But we have changed our monitoring of prisoners, especially suicidal ones. A suicide watch now requires a one on one. An officer sits in a chair outside the cell and watches the prisoner. You want to talk about OT out the ***. Thousands upon thousands of dollars are now wasted on OT to have cops keep an eagle eye on these prisoners all because of one dead guy. The best thing to come of this is he will never commit another crime again.

        Comment


        • #7
          When OJ Simpson was in the Los Angeles County jail, he was guarded 24 hours a day by Sgts. only...When OJ first came into the county jail,,a jail deputy and a jail nurse went to him to get his autograph....Sheriff Block found out and he was highly P.....ed....It was then he ordered that Sgts. only would guard OJ...For the entire time he was in jail Sgts. on overtime guarded him...
          Last edited by Retired96; 08-11-2019, 10:22 PM.
          Retired LASD

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by Retired96 View Post
            When OJ Simpson was in the Los Angeles County jail, he was guarded 24 hours a day by Sgts. only...
            White privilege?
            Now go home and get your shine box!

            Comment


            • RGDS
              RGDS commented
              Editing a comment
              Yea, Sergeants?

              Must be nice. I get selecting (hand picking) individuals for these assignments but cutting out the first rank entirely? Like no Sergeants were going to risk their careers? Only Deputies would risk their careers for a high profile DV Murder suspect?

            • Iowa #1603
              Iowa #1603 commented
              Editing a comment
              Yea LASO has policies that would kill a "regular " department .

          • #9
            Staffing in custody facilities has been a growing problem for over a decade. Nearly every facility, if not ALL facilities, runs on overtime.

            30 minute checks are too long for folks with previous stated suicide attempts. We use 15 minute checks and even that can be too long.

            Sounds like a legit convergence of bad policies.

            The tinfoil hat stuff sounds good but, come on Hillary didn’t pay the guard to look the other way while a lizard person assassin killed this guy to prevent him from publicizing the names of high ranking child molesters, or whatever he was going to testify too. Everyone knows Lizard People don’t work for Hillary.
            semper destravit

            Comment


            • Bing_Oh
              Bing_Oh commented
              Editing a comment
              The Grays work for Hillary, and everybody knows the Grays and the Lizard People hate each other...that's why they keep them at separate facilities at Area 51.

            • RGDS
              RGDS commented
              Editing a comment
              Is the BOP responsible for separating them?

          • #10
            Originally posted by CCCSD View Post

            White privilege?
            well, it was a WHITE Bronco
            Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

            My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

            Comment


            • #11
              https://www.foxnews.com/us/jeffrey-e...e-days-reports

              The Associated Press cited an unnamed source in a Sunday report that said the Metropolitan Correctional Center's Special Housing Unit was staffed with a single guard working a fifth straight day of overtime and another who was working mandatory overtime.
              There ya go. Like i said, overworked and understaffed.
              "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
              -Friedrich Nietzsche

              Comment


              • #12
                I'm baffled.

                I've never worked in a jail, but I've worked in our police department's holding facility.

                Every single prisoner is in full view of at least one camera at all times. There are no blind spots- the cameras can see every square inch of every cell. In the control room, multiple officers and a sergeant are watching the bank of monitors connected to those cameras 24/7. We never turn the lights off. Visual and physical checks are performed as needed. There's just no way for someone to try to kill themselves without a number of us seeing it.

                Nobody goes in a cell without being searched. No shoes, no socks, no belts, no shoelaces, no bras, and no extra clothing. If they remove any remaining article of clothing, we take it from them immediately. If they use their blanket for anything other than a blanket, we take it away from them. If they use their mat for anything other than a mat, we take it away from them. Suicidal prisoners go in a padded cell which has no sink or toilet- we give them water in little paper cups, and there is a hole in the floor for them to use as a toilet. We didn't even give them toilet paper. I cannot think of a way that someone could possibly kill themselves in there.

                We worked a lot of overtime too, because of staffing shortages. We were allowed (and sometimes required) to work up to six 16-hour doubles in a row, as long as we took the 7th day off.
                Last edited by Aidokea; 08-11-2019, 10:19 PM.

                Comment


                • #13
                  Holding cell in a station is vastly different than a cell where you live.
                  Now go home and get your shine box!

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    Suicide..... I bet the 6 shots to the back of his head was their first clue....
                    Getting shot hurts! Don't under estimate the power of live ammo. A .22LR can kill you! I personally feel that it's best to avoid being shot by any caliber. Your vest may stop the bullet, but you'll still get a nice bruise or other injury to remember the experience.

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Yeah no kidding.



                      Suicide....more like suicided.
                      Last edited by beachcop05; 08-12-2019, 06:53 AM.

                      Comment

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