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  • Two San Antonio officers fired

    https://www.ktsa.com/two-san-antonio...from-shootout/ Two San Antonio Probationary Officers are fired after running from shootout

    By Don Morgan

    Mar 6, 2019 @ 4:12 PM

    SAN ANTONIO (KTSA News) – Two Probationary Officers with the San Antonio Police Department have been fired for running off during a raid. “These two officers need to look for another profession,” the words of Chief William McManus when it was announced the two Probationary Officers had been let go.
    They were with Sergeant Steven Castillo early Monday morning when he responded to a disturbance call on Spring Dale Street.
    Castillo and the Probationary Officers confronted a man who fired a shotgun toward them.
    Officer Castillo returned fire but the two rookies…. ran off.
    Chief McManus says the men were fired but will not face any criminal charges.
    “The officer involved shooting on Spring Dale was tragic and unavoidable. I expect that all SAPD officers will respond appropriately to protect their fellow officers in times of danger. In this case, that did not happen and I felt that the appropriate response was to terminate the two probationary officers.”

    This disgusts me but quite honestly with the way some agencies are hiring these days I'm not surprised. We had a deputy in ghost phase of FTO fired few months ago because the FTO was in a fight and the trainee literally just stood there and watched. Just thought I would share.
    "To hell with a supervisor, men follow a leader" -Texas Ranger Captain Allee

    "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death."
    -Sun Tzu

  • #2
    Some serious counseling needed to be done in the stations back parking lot, a ambulance might be needed when finished..
    Retired LASD

    Comment


    • #3
      This is the new PERF generation, folks.
      Now go home and get your shine box!

      Comment


      • Retired96
        Retired96 commented
        Editing a comment
        What does PERF stand for,,,never heard that term

    • #4
      Hence my rule No. 3 to my Probationers: "Remember it's a contact sport". Which I introduced after one of them stood by and watched whilst I was struggling to detain someone; the Probationer didn't realise he was supposed to join in allegedly.
      I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

      Comment


      • #5
        At the sheriff's department where I worked, an FTO was with a rookie when they had a guy flee a traffic stop - the FTO gave chase while the rookie stood by to direct responding officers to where his FTO had chased the suspect. The FTO chased the suspect into a backyard while the rookie told responding officers "He went back that way".

        Let's just say he didn't last much longer after that...
        Originally posted by RSGSRT
        We've reached a point where natural selection doesn't have a chance in hell of keeping up with the procreation of imbeciles.
        Why is it acceptable for you to be an idiot, but not acceptable for me to point it out?

        Comment


        • #6
          What does PERF stand for,,,never heard that term
          https://www.policeforum.org/about-perf

          Comment


          • #7
            In the 40 plus years I have been around I have seen a number of rookies (and a few NOT ROOKIES) suddenly freeze when the crap hit the fan.

            The academy doesn't do much to weed out a person who is chicken. All the stress academies , video shoot/no shoot scenarios and stress DT sessions are good for training purposes but EVERYONE knows it is fake. trainers are NOT going to hurt or kill the trainee........and they know it.

            When out in the field and it happens............you never know how a person will react the first time.

            I had an excellent officer working for me. Handled inmates fantastically, knew how to talk to them, could get them to do whatever. He had been with the agency for almost 3 yrs and had never been around an inmate fight .............we had them during his time but he was always in another area or responded once the incident was over...................

            One night I was with him when we walked into 4 inmates fighting........ I hit the alarm button and pulled OC to take control and sprayed the group , yelled at my partner to cuff them ....................and waited, and waited . I turned around and he was back against the wall froze.

            Luckily the squad arrived almost immediately and took everyone into custody.

            He resigned the next day.................before the paperwork could be shuffled
            Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

            My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

            Comment


            • #8
              I certainly expect a few to freeze up here and there but two on the same call? (most likely from the same academy class if both on probation and the way San Antonio schedules their academies)

              I've only been in the business 7 years but it seems agencies these days want "angels". Ever been in a high school fight, cut. Had a late payment 10 years ago, cut. We have 1000 applicants for 30 spots and I have to make a phone call about anything in your background, cut. Joined the military and got hurt, cut. Obviously, some slight exaggeration, some not.

              I'd much rather have a partner who has some life experience, and struggled a little bit than the kid straight out of college and had school paid for him his entire life by his parents. Just my personal opinion and I may be preaching to the choir. Hell the city I live in may as well have the job title police woman on their next civil service exam announcement because that's all they hire and even have news segments that women are what they are seeking. Then during the academy let several go for various reasons. Last academy they had a female who had to be let go because she had never driven a car without a backup camera and could not pass driving, which includes backing. I just feel like the process isn't about the best applicant anymore, it's about public perception and accreditation groups like CALEA saying what departments needs to be doing instead of policing. Some of the standards in hiring need to be reconsidered or at least investigated more thoroughly. I'm sure there were experience officers that had a write up for driving too fast (or something else fairly small) that were passed over for these two chickens.

              I actually applied for a department close to where I live last year, since I drive 1.5 hours to work and they pay almost double what I make, and was told I was top of their list because I had good experience, my MCJ, advanced training in DWI enforcement, etc... They went to my current department and basically told them get ready to fill my spot and looked at my file and what not. My department called me and told me it looked like I was going to be leaving, until the prospective department pulled my credit. I have quite a large debt in student loans but never had a late payment on them or any other debt. I got an e-mail the day after they went to my department and told them pretty much to fill my spot that I was no longer being considered because I have too many financial obligations, which is only student loans. My wife's car is paid off, my car is on its way to be paid off, I rent, and I have no credit cards.So I was on top of their list because of my MCJ but they didn't like how I paid for it although I could pay my bills on my current salary and if hired by them and made twice as much I could obviously still pay my bills and probably even pay some of that debt down. I understand the reason why debt is looked at but I don't have a history of theft, no allegations of theft, never investigated for theft, and I don't have any suspicious large sum payments towards my debt.
              "To hell with a supervisor, men follow a leader" -Texas Ranger Captain Allee

              "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death."
              -Sun Tzu

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                In the 40 plus years I have been around I have seen a number of rookies (and a few NOT ROOKIES) suddenly freeze when the crap hit the fan.

                The academy doesn't do much to weed out a person who is chicken. All the stress academies , video shoot/no shoot scenarios and stress DT sessions are good for training purposes but EVERYONE knows it is fake. trainers are NOT going to hurt or kill the trainee........and they know it.

                When out in the field and it happens............you never know how a person will react the first time.

                I had an excellent officer working for me. Handled inmates fantastically, knew how to talk to them, could get them to do whatever. He had been with the agency for almost 3 yrs and had never been around an inmate fight .............we had them during his time but he was always in another area or responded once the incident was over...................

                One night I was with him when we walked into 4 inmates fighting........ I hit the alarm button and pulled OC to take control and sprayed the group , yelled at my partner to cuff them ....................and waited, and waited . I turned around and he was back against the wall froze.

                Luckily the squad arrived almost immediately and took everyone into custody.

                He resigned the next day.................before the paperwork could be shuffled
                I wish my old jail would have fired people for stuff like that. Because of the low pay and toxic work environment, people were quitting constantly, and others were getting fired for major misbehavior or because certain supervisors just didn't like them. However, incompetence almost never resulted in termination, or even counseling.

                We had MANY officers who, on multiple occasions, froze during use of force situations. I would say a good half of my shift I wouldn't have trusted to have my back in a fight. About half the time, the only thing that happened was that they'd be confined to the bubble for a few months. The rest of the time, absolutely nothing was done and the officer who froze kept the same security posts. The only people who ever even talked to officers about failing to react were the other officers.

                Supervisors would grumble about unreliable officers, but they never did anything about it. I think they felt that, because they were already losing too many officers to quitting or serious violations, they couldn't afford to fire officers who were just incompetent.
                "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
                -Chris Rock

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by GangGreen712 View Post

                  I wish my old jail would have fired people for stuff like that. Because of the low pay and toxic work environment, people were quitting constantly, and others were getting fired for major misbehavior or because certain supervisors just didn't like them. However, incompetence almost never resulted in termination, or even counseling.

                  We had MANY officers who, on multiple occasions, froze during use of force situations. I would say a good half of my shift I wouldn't have trusted to have my back in a fight. About half the time, the only thing that happened was that they'd be confined to the bubble for a few months. The rest of the time, absolutely nothing was done and the officer who froze kept the same security posts. The only people who ever even talked to officers about failing to react were the other officers.

                  Supervisors would grumble about unreliable officers, but they never did anything about it. I think they felt that, because they were already losing too many officers to quitting or serious violations, they couldn't afford to fire officers who were just incompetent.
                  We went through phases where the administration wouldn't can people. Then when they would fire people at the drop of a hat.

                  MOST of the officers who figured out they were scared would just quit after a UOF where they froze.
                  Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                  My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    At least SAPD canned these two and the Sgt wasn't hurt, I take it. Hopefully the attention this garners will follow these two and keep them out of LE.
                    Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
                    “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

                    Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
                    “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

                    George Washington, (1732-1799)
                    "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

                    Originally posted by Country_Jim
                    ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      I’m surprised they got canned. It’s refreshing to hear though.
                      I make my living on Irish welfare.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        They’ll be posting in AAC soon...
                        Now go home and get your shine box!

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Langford PR View Post
                          At least SAPD canned these two and the Sgt wasn't hurt, I take it. Hopefully the attention this garners will follow these two and keep them out of LE.
                          The fact that they got canned I think suggests that SAPD doesn't see any reason to help them pursue a police career elsewhere. I figured they'd have kept this quiet and let them resign if they felt that these guys were just not cut out to be city cops and should try again somewhere easier. Nope, they got kicked to the curb and no doubt told to find a new job.
                          "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
                          -Chris Rock

                          Comment

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