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Shutdown: Into Unchartered Waters We Go

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  • Shutdown: Into Unchartered Waters We Go

    Recent reports are indicating the current shutdown is nowhere close to resolution, and yesterday POTUS said it could go months, even years. Rhetoric aside, at websites like Politico and The Hill, pundits and politicians alike are predicting the impasse will not end anytime soon.

    So far, the strain hasn't been terribly significant, other than trash is piling up at national parks and the outhouses are full. BUT... if this does drag on for months, what then?

    No hiring. No applications for previous announcements are being reviewed. People currently in the pipeline are on indefinite hold.

    No academy or other training.

    No travel.

    No expenditures. Not even oil changes for G-rides or paper for copy machines.

    No one eligible to retire can do so, since no one in personnel is there to process the paperwork.

    Courts grind to a halt as only a skeleton staff remain.

    No paychecks. Now one or two pay cycles might not seem like a big deal, but month after month? TSA is already reporting 25% of employees are calling in sick at some airports, and the assumption is they are seeking day work. What happens in three months? Will that number be 90%?

    Collecting unemployment ($400 a week max in most states) may be an option for those furloughed, but what about all the excepted service folks? CBP, BOP, 083s, 1811s etc. can't even apply for unemployment since they are not furloughed.

    At what point does it hit critical mass, where large numbers of people simply walk away to gain whatever employment they can, because loyalty doesn't pay the mortgage or put food on the table.

    Game plan this out, Worst Case Scenario....

    One day, lad, this will all be yours.

  • #2
    What is a government shutdown? My libertarian friends feel the only shutdown is when no one collects taxes... I find that one the easiest to understand.

    This “partial” stuff is utter nonsense. Who is essential? I think it’s clear that sanitary folks are essential at National Parks if you leave the park open.

    I am sure all the prior service folks will eagerly jump on this: When do the troops just not do what they do? You are telling me, with a straight face, that if this shutdown pushes into a year + that our military will still be able to do anything? If the government is shutdown, why are expeditionary forces still out there? You can’t clean up a national park but you can drone strike a village in the FATA of Pakistan? Give me a break!

    And what happens if Trump uses “DoD” funding to build the wall? They are essential right? So he diverts $5billion. Then, what does Congress have? They didn’t authorize it and it got built anyway... so why are they shutdown?

    Given it is Tax Season, I wonder what it will look like come April 15th and NO refund checks have been cut? Think that might be unbearable pressure put on Congress? ALL your constituents furious they didn’t get money? (I think this breaks the stalemate.)

    Oh the Courts are shutdown? Really? Like this isn’t a violation of someone’s 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th Amemdmrmt rights? Really? How is that legal? “Oh SCOTUS, you know we weren’t paid so this guy’s rights just didn’t matter.” “There was no one on the Admin side to process this woman’s release so she stayed in Federal Prison until the shutdown ended. It’s okay, once Congress funded the clerks she got out... only a year later”

    I love when Federal Administrators say “we have the best and the brightest of America.” That may have been true prior to the 1990s. Since 1996 there have been 2 (now 3)shutdowns that lasted longer than a week. As you said the promise of getting paid back only goes for so long before people actually need to get paid.

    If the Tax Refunds don’t come, I see people walking shortly there afterwards. I also see people not paying taxes.
    semper destravit

    Comment


    • #3
      Only the executive branch proles that make the wheel turn are impacted. DOD is funded for FY19. So are the entitlements (medicare, social security). This shutdown would've lasted a day if those weren't....

      One day, lad, this will all be yours.

      Comment


      • #4
        Very true. Interesting -not- that people being stupid in Nat Parks and getting hurt is being blamed on Trump. It must be his fault...

        Idiots.
        Now go home and get your shine box!

        Comment


        • #5
          Here’s a question: What happens when you start calling in sick? Can they go after you? Will they? What if everyone just said screw it, Im sick. Is the boss going to drive to my house and all my coworkers houses to make sure we are actually sick? What if he is sick too? I don’t mean the National Parks janitor, but BOP or 1811s?

          If the entire shift at USP Florence calls in sick, and the inmates riot because they aren’t getting fed, what happens? If the every CBP officer at a port of entry is sick, what happens to the passengers or cargo? What about investigations involving public safety?
          Last edited by reils49; 01-05-2019, 06:58 PM.
          I make my living on Irish welfare.

          Comment


          • #6
            Drs note required at some point, along with follow up. Falsely claiming illness is grounds for termination.
            Now go home and get your shine box!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
              Only the executive branch proles that make the wheel turn are impacted. DOD is funded for FY19. So are the entitlements (medicare, social security). This shutdown would've lasted a day if those weren't....
              Interesting thing is that they are reporting that Service members in the Coast Guard are going to get paid. Not sure how that can be since they fall under DHS and are not funded. The reality is that nobody has a clue. Every shutdown that I’ve seen has been handled in a different way. A pay period or two is not a problem but months without a check would be a major hit to most.
              “Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.” - Steven Wright

              US Army MP (95B) 1992-1997
              DOJ Agent/ DHS Officer 1997 to Present

              Comment


              • #8
                Critical jobs aren’t furloughed. Coast Guard is critical to Safety and Security, as well as units assigned to DoD.
                Now go home and get your shine box!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
                  Critical jobs aren’t furloughed. Coast Guard is critical to Safety and Security, as well as units assigned to DoD.
                  As an LEO with DHS currently working during this shutdown I completely understand that. What I am saying is that the news is reporting the US Coast Guard members will somehow be receiving a paycheck during he shutdown even though they fall under DHS and their agency is not funded.
                  “Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.” - Steven Wright

                  US Army MP (95B) 1992-1997
                  DOJ Agent/ DHS Officer 1997 to Present

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
                    Drs note required at some point, along with follow up. Falsely claiming illness is grounds for termination.
                    I get the book answer. But if this goes long term, hypothetically speaking, and everyone is sick of working for nothing, do you think they have the resources to enforce it? I don’t think they do.

                    And I don’t mean just quitting coming to work altogether, anyone with some time should know the rules regarding how many days require a doctors note. Or you say I’m under physical and emotional duress because I haven’t been paid, which has caused me to be physically ill.
                    I make my living on Irish welfare.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I once saw a sign that said “we are too broke to close” they couldn’t even afford to shutdown....

                      If this stretches into months, I could see that same thing happening. They can’t afford to pay folks but at the same time will punish you for not showing up. But as Ratatatat said, when does the need to eat/pay bills supersede the fear of termination. “I still technically work for the government, but they haven’t paid me in 97 days.... so I need this job at Whataburger.”

                      When do the employees get to sue the Government under the 13th Amendment? Working without pay sounds awful lot like a certain 7 letter word.
                      semper destravit

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by reils49 View Post

                        I get the book answer. But if this goes long term, hypothetically speaking, and everyone is sick of working for nothing, do you think they have the resources to enforce it? I don’t think they do.

                        And I don’t mean just quitting coming to work altogether, anyone with some time should know the rules regarding how many days require a doctors note. Or you say I’m under physical and emotional duress because I haven’t been paid, which has caused me to be physically ill.
                        I can have a Dr's note TOMORROW saying that I need 12 weeks of FMLA due to stress.
                        Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          So there will be another meeting today. Could be huge. Jared will be discussing the shutdown with congressional aides. Updates to follow. Check back frequently.

                          (Joking, of course. When you hear "aides", it pretty much means "we're just chilling today.")

                          I get that much of this situation, especially at this point, is as much kabuki theatre as anything else, but the sides only seem to be digging in deeper, boxing themselves in further, and that's what is frightening. Because the longer this goes on, the more it strains the complex and layered matrix of agencies who protect our society. All the agencies affected, especially the big ones, are like huge engines; if not maintained properly, they can sputter and spin and seize up. And right now, there's fuel but no motor oil.

                          I'm trying to filter what the news agencies are reporting (which they so often get wrong. This week, one dim bulb on MSNBC said BPAs would be getting paid during the shutdown. Wrong.) and get my head straight on what's the crux of the matter here. I say that because they'll use the word "wall" without further context or explanation. From what I've been able to glean, the main issue is the stretch from El Paso to Brownsville, which is comprised of mostly private property in Texas, and the big reason that stretch is open is the myriad of legal issues regarding rights of way, eminent domain, compensation for deprivation of property, etc. Correct me if I am wrong in understanding the 5 billion dollars would mostly go towards addressing that stretch, as barriers currently exist for most of the San Diego to El Paso stretch (see below).

                          https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall...ve-border-map/

                          At what point though, will the bigger threat not be 1,000 miles of open Texas border, but the dysfunction created by intentionally ham-stringing the functionability of the G in order to take a political stand??
                          One day, lad, this will all be yours.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Speaking to reporters outside the White House on Sunday morning, Trump said he understood the predicament facing hundreds of thousands of federal workers who are not receiving their paychecks.

                            I can relate, and I’m sure the people who are on the receiving end will make adjustments; they always do,” Trump said.

                            https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ek/2019/01/06/

                            Perhaps we should share possible "adjustments" that might come with having no income...

                            -Eat bark and moss. Bugs and snakes, if you're in the south.

                            -Snowshoe instead of drive. Bike ride and roller blade, if you're in the south.

                            -Cancel TV and internet. No O.com until situation is resolved. Deprive thousands of readers of deep wit and profound insights.

                            -Stand at freeway offramp with sign stating, "Will work for free. Always do."

                            -Spruce up resume. Ask self, "when was the last time truck drivers, roofers, nurses, bartenders, etc. were expected to "make adjustments"?

                            One day, lad, this will all be yours.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post


                              Perhaps we should share possible "adjustments" that might come with having no income...

                              -Eat bark and moss. Bugs and snakes, if you're in the south.

                              -Snowshoe instead of drive. Bike ride and roller blade, if you're in the south.

                              -Cancel TV and internet. No O.com until situation is resolved. Deprive thousands of readers of deep wit and profound insights. ***and trolls and drunken tirades?****

                              -Stand at freeway offramp with sign stating, "Will work for free. Always do."

                              -Spruce up resume. Ask self, "when was the last time truck drivers, roofers, nurses, bartenders, etc. were expected to "make adjustments"?
                              Isn’t that the 21 Century version of “let them eat cake”....
                              semper destravit

                              Comment

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