Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Massacre was Premeditated, Shooter Ruled Mentally Ill in 2005 then released!

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Massacre was Premeditated, Shooter Ruled Mentally Ill in 2005 then released!

    Gunman contacted NBC News during massacre
    msnbc.msn.com ^ | 04/18/2007 | kik5150

    Sometime after he killed two people in a Virginia university dormitory but before he slaughtered 30 more in a classroom building Monday morning, Cho Seung-Hui sent NBC News a rambling communication and videos about his grievances, the network said Wednesday. Cho, 23, a senior English major at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, killed 32 people in two attacks Monday before taking his own life.

    (Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...








    VT Killer Ruled Mentally Ill by Court; Let Go After Hospital Visit (Virginia Tech)
    ABC News Online ^ | 4/18/07 | Ned Potter and David Schoetz


    A Virginia court found that Virginia Tech killer Seung-Hui Cho was "mentally ill" and dangerous. Then, the state let him go.

    In 2005, after a district court in Montgomery County ruled that Cho was either a danger to himself or to others -- the legal criteria to obtain a detention order -- he was evaluated by a state doctor and ordered to undergo outpatient care.

    The doctor found that Cho's "insight and judgment are normal" and that he was not taking any medications, according to documents obtained by ABC News.

    The ruling came after Cho was taken by police to a nearby psychiatric hospital for evaluation in December 2005, after two female schoolmates said they received threatening messages from him and police and school officials became concerned that he might be suicidal.

    That information came to light two days after Cho, a Virginia Tech senior, killed 32 people and then himself in a shooting rampage on the university's campus.

    Police obtained the order from a local magistrate after it was determined by a state-certified employee that Cho's apparent mental state met the threshold for the temporary detention order.

    Under Virginia law, "A magistrate has the authority to issue a detention order upon a finding that a person is mentally ill and in need of hospitalization or treatment.

    "The magistrate also must find that the person is an imminent danger to himself or others," says the guideline from Virginia's state court system.

    Wendell Flinchum, the chief of the Virginia Tech police department, said that it's common for university police to work with state-affiliated mental health facilities instead of on-campus counseling because it is easier to obtain a detention order.

    "We normally go through access [appealing to the state's legal system for help] because they have the power to commit people if they need to be committed," Flinchum said at a press conference Wednesday morning.

    Cho was taken to Carilion St. Albans Behavioral Health Center in Radford, Va., a private facility that can take 162 inpatients, according to court documents.

    It's unclear whether Cho went to the hospital with police on his own or was taken there under protective custody, a possibility under the temporary detention order obtained by police.

    Authorities did not say how much time Cho had spent at the hospital.

    One of the young women complained in November 2005 that Cho, then 21, was stalking her, but she declined to press legal charges against him. Police interviewed Cho for the first time and referred the case to the school's internal disciplinary board.

    It's unclear whether any action was ever taken by the school, although Edward Spencer, a school vice president, said that it's not uncommon for a complaint to never reach a full hearing.

    A second girl, less than two weeks later, told authorities she received disturbing instant messages from Cho, and asked police to make sure there was "no further contact" from him.

    Police spoke to Cho the next day. They say that shortly after, they received a call from an acquaintance of his, expressing concerns that he might be suicidal.

    For a third time, police met with him. "Out of concern for Cho, officers asked him to speak to a counselor," Flinchum said. "He went voluntarily to the police department."

    Police say Cho talked with a therapist from a local mental health agency not affiliated with Virginia Tech. That agency had authority to seek the detention order from a local magistrate.

    The student complaints that brought Cho to the attention of authorities came during the same time that creative writing professor Lucinda Roy went to administrators to voice her concern about violent themes in Cho's writing.

    Roy told ABC News that Cho seemed "extraordinarily lonely -- the loneliest person I have ever met in my life."

    But authorities said they had no contact with Cho between then and Monday's mass killings.

    While the school, citing privacy laws, did not conclusively say that school counselors had ever worked with Cho, they did say that a system for working with outside mental health agencies and local authorities is in place.

    "Clearly, mental health professionals have a legal and moral responsibility," when a student presents a possible risk, said Christopher Flynn, head of the university's counseling center. "We have a duty to warn."

    But Flynn also said that signs of trouble in Cho's behavior were not a clear indicator that action would follow. "It is very difficult to predict when what someone perceives as stalking, is stalking."

    A Loner, Mysterious Even to His Roommates

    Seung Cho was quiet -- so quiet that some classmates of his say they never heard his voice in three years. His roommates reported he was distant and private, eating by himself night after night, and watching wrestling on TV.

    Cho's roommates say he obsessively downloaded music from the Internet. One of his favorites was the song "Shine," by Collective Soul, which he played over and over

    He even scribbled some of the lyrics on the wall, they said -- lyrics like, "Teach me how to speak; Teach me how to share; Teach me where to go."

    He was early to bed and early to rise, normally in bed by 9 p.m., and sometimes up by 5:30 the next morning. His roommates tell ABC News they would see him in the morning putting in his contact lenses, taking prescription medication and applying acne medicine to his face.

    "He pretty much never talked at all," said Joseph Aust, who shared a bedroom with him in a six-person dorm suite in Harper Hall. "I tried to make conversation with him earlier in the year. He gave one-word answers.

    "He pretty much never looked me in the eye," Aust said.

    In recent weeks his routine had changed. His roommates say he went to the campus gym at night, lifting weights to bulk up. He went for a haircut -- surprising them by coming back to the room with a military-style buzz cut.

    Aust and another roommate, Karan Grewal, say they were aware that Cho had pursued women on campus. They said he also seemed to have an imaginary girlfriend, a supermodel named "Jelly."

    Students say he seemed as quiet as ever in the days before Monday's rampage.

    Trey Perkins, a student who saw Cho during the shooting spree, said it was unreal, "being that close to a monster."
    "I neither approve or blame. I merely relate."- Voltaire

  • #2
    BATF form 4473, which specifically asks if you have been adjudicated mentally ill or committed to a mental institution. The definition of ‘committed to a mental institution’ covers a court order. That means his background check should have been declined, The state of VA and the Feds (NICS) dropped the ball.

    Cho also set fire to a dorm room, and was the subject of several police reports involving two separate stalking incidents on campus, but somehow still managed to buy a gun thru a licensed dealer.

    Last edited by JSandi; 04-18-2007, 05:43 PM.
    "I neither approve or blame. I merely relate."- Voltaire

    Comment


    • #3
      I am sure we'll hear more in the days to come.

      His background check appearantly came back clear.

      Time will tell.
      Last edited by t150vsuptpr; 04-18-2007, 06:45 PM.
      "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

      "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

      >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

      Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JSandi
        BATF form 4473, which specifically asks if you have been adjudicated mentally ill or committed to a mental institution. The definition of ‘committed to a mental institution’ covers a court order. That means his background check should have been declined, The state of VA and the Feds (NICS) dropped the ball.

        Cho also set fire to a dorm room, and was the subject of several police reports involving two separate stalking incidents on campus, but somehow still managed to buy a gun thru a licensed dealer.

        That's exactly what I was thinking.
        J. Wise

        AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

        "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

        Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          I smell lawsuit.

          Comment


          • #6
            From what I understand all that is required is to have photo ID and proof of no criminal record to buy a weapon there. It's too bad an automatic flag doesn't go up for someone committed due to being mentally ill. I see being sent to the loonie bin putting someone at just a tad more risk of doing something crazy than having a criminal record.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mirrain
              From what I understand all that is required is to have photo ID and proof of no criminal record to buy a weapon there. It's too bad an automatic flag doesn't go up for someone committed due to being mentally ill. I see being sent to the loonie bin putting someone at just a tad more risk of doing something crazy than having a criminal record.
              The problem is that had he been involuntarily committed it SHOULD have flagged. Ive worked more than a few attempt to purchase cases where the person was declined due to an involuntary commitment. Its an important issue at hand if he was involuntary committed, and then further found to be mentally ill. His TDO or EPO or anything else out on him in 2005 would have expired by the time he purchased the firearms.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm kinda wondering why he was still in the country after being adjudicated as "mentally ill" or whatever. Shoulda sent his crazy *** home.

                Student visa + mental problems = deportation. Sounds simple enough.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think it's too soon to say "coulda, woulda, shoulda" in regards to the shooter's mental health issues. He was unquestionably mentally ill. It's not clear from the news reports what he did in 2005 to earn himself a mental health evaluation. I see reports that he was declared metally ill by a judge and then sent to a mental health facility. I'm ignorant of Virgina mental health law but that sounds bass-akwards. I suspect a judge approved a social worker's request to send the guy to the hospital for evaluation. That’s not necessarily the same thing as an involuntary commitment. We don't know what kind of follow-up there was or how responded.

                  In any case, there's a lot of work to be done if we want to track a person's involvement with mental health treatment at least as well as we track their involvement with the criminal justice system.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Camo Cop
                    I'm kinda wondering why he was still in the country after being adjudicated as "mentally ill" or whatever. Shoulda sent his crazy *** home.

                    Student visa + mental problems = deportation. Sounds simple enough.
                    He wasn't here on a student visa....

                    Cho was born in South Korea on Jan. 18, 1984 and entered the United States in 1992 as a child of 8. He was a permanent resident alien, a "green card" holder entitled to most of the legal rights held by U.S. citizens.
                    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266523,00.html
                    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
                    and I'm not sure about the former.
                    -Albert Einstein


                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Camo Cop
                      I'm kinda wondering why he was still in the country after being adjudicated as "mentally ill" or whatever. Shoulda sent his crazy *** home.

                      Student visa + mental problems = deportation. Sounds simple enough.
                      He was a permanent resident (or so I heard). This gives him virtually all the same rights as a citizen with a handfull of exceptions. Can't deport him. It's not illegal to be crazy.
                      Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Seventy2002
                        I think it's too soon to say "coulda, woulda, shoulda" in regards to the shooter's mental health issues. He was unquestionably mentally ill. It's not clear from the news reports what he did in 2005 to earn himself a mental health evaluation. I see reports that he was declared metally ill by a judge and then sent to a mental health facility. I'm ignorant of Virgina mental health law but that sounds bass-akwards. I suspect a judge approved a social worker's request to send the guy to the hospital for evaluation. That’s not necessarily the same thing as an involuntary commitment. We don't know what kind of follow-up there was or how responded.

                        In any case, there's a lot of work to be done if we want to track a person's involvement with mental health treatment at least as well as we track their involvement with the criminal justice system.
                        I suspect that after the court ordered eval., had he been found "bat$h!t crazy" then he could have been involuntarily committed. Apparantly he was found sane enough to be released. This doesn't suprise me. I have several people that I have EODed (Emergency Order of Detention) be back on the street in less than 24 hours. And they were bat$h!t crazy.
                        Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

                        Comment

                        MR300x250 Tablet

                        Collapse

                        What's Going On

                        Collapse

                        There are currently 4691 users online. 261 members and 4430 guests.

                        Most users ever online was 158,966 at 05:57 AM on 01-16-2021.

                        Welcome Ad

                        Collapse
                        Working...
                        X