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Gun bill gets shot down (would have allowed students with CHP to carry at Va. Tech)

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  • Gun bill gets shot down (would have allowed students with CHP to carry at Va. Tech)

    A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

    House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

    The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

    Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

    Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

    Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

    The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

    Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

    In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.





    "I neither approve or blame. I merely relate."- Voltaire

  • #2
    Ironic, perhaps... still very sad.

    And to preempt those who are bellowing about poor taste and sad timing, this does stand to task, a question to be asked by all, what if...

    If you cannot see the tragedy in all of this then maybe you need to step out of the line for a while, we cannot be everywhere all the time to protect all, so why deny those we admit we cannot protect the ability to protect themselves?

    "I neither approve or blame. I merely relate."- Voltaire

    Comment


    • #3
      I think allowing guns on campus is not a good idea and is unnecessary. I think security should just be upped. Plant more officers in the school.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Conner
        I think allowing guns on campus is not a good idea and is unnecessary. I think security should just be upped. Plant more officers in the school.
        At whose expense?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Conner
          I think allowing guns on campus is not a good idea and is unnecessary. I think security should just be upped. Plant more officers in the school.
          Who's going to pay for it......? Students? Tuition is already at a all time high.....

          Taxpayers...? That isn't going to happen. Taxes are already through the roof in most places......

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Conner
            I think allowing guns on campus is not a good idea and is unnecessary. I think security should just be upped. Plant more officers in the school.
            Why are you so eager to disarm American citizens just because they are on a college campus?

            I wonder how many lives would have been saved today if the law allowed licened citizens to carry.

            Sad, very sad.
            Fear not the armed citizen but rather the government that tries to disarm him.

            Comment


            • #7
              I can imagine a couple of armed students running around in fear and chaos all the while police are trying to find the shooter(s). I'm sure innocent people would die nontheless. Who would pay for the damages of a studen CHP holder getting capped by police during a school shooting?
              Last edited by djack16; 04-16-2007, 08:17 PM.
              -I don't feel you honor someone by creating a physical gesture (the salute). You honor them by holding them in memory and, in law enforcement, proceeding in vigilant, ethical police work. You honor this country or deceased soldiers or whatever you're honoring when you salute a flag by thinking, feeling, and continuing a life of freedom.

              --ArkansasRed24

              Comment


              • #8
                Bad things happen to good people. The chance that a CC holder would be accidentally killed by the police is not a reason to prohibit concealed carry.

                Let us look at the cost of human life. Say the assailant was killed by a CC holder after he had killed 5 people. If a CC holder was then accidentally killed by police, that is still only 6 dead...not 33. Tragedy is the cost of a free society, for how can we be free and still be constantly safe?

                And the real liklihood is that the armed citizen would defend himself and end the deadly confrontation long before any police response.
                "A fanatic is one who won't change his mind, and won't change the subject." -Winston Churchill

                "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." -Will Rogers

                "To desire to save these wolves in society may arise from benevolence, but it must be the benevolence of a child or a fool" -Henry Fielding

                Comment


                • #9
                  We could speculate all day long as to what scenarios could be beneficial or negative. At the end, it is just speculation. Gunman could take down a CC holder and use his gun to kill more students. Who knows?

                  Also, how do we know he couldn't kill the 33 people before a CC holder could respond in time? Then I bet we'd be debating letting people carry around their collapsable full-auto assault rifle in their backpacks.
                  -I don't feel you honor someone by creating a physical gesture (the salute). You honor them by holding them in memory and, in law enforcement, proceeding in vigilant, ethical police work. You honor this country or deceased soldiers or whatever you're honoring when you salute a flag by thinking, feeling, and continuing a life of freedom.

                  --ArkansasRed24

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Or perhaps he would have never even carried this attack out if he knew the school/venue allowed CCW and that a chance existed, even just a small one that a student could have a gun.

                    It seems to be almost common place that where gun prohibition(s) is/are the greatest so to is the violent/deadly crime. Maybe it has more to do with the knowledge by the criminals that their prey is most assuredly unarmed?
                    "I neither approve or blame. I merely relate."- Voltaire

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by djack16
                      I can imagine a couple of armed students running around in fear and chaos all the while police are trying to find the shooter(s). I'm sure innocent people would die nontheless. Who would pay for the damages of a studen CHP holder getting capped by police during a school shooting?
                      That could happen at a mall shooting...grocery store shooting...or a shooting in a Target or Wal-Mart....

                      Remember....this is the South....lots of CCWs around.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by djack16
                        We could speculate all day long as to what scenarios could be beneficial or negative. At the end, it is just speculation. Gunman could take down a CC holder and use his gun to kill more students. Who knows?

                        Also, how do we know he couldn't kill the 33 people before a CC holder could respond in time? Then I bet we'd be debating letting people carry around their collapsable full-auto assault rifle in their backpacks.
                        Perhaps you should research how many innocent people were killed in shooting rampages in the last five years -- and then research how many CCW holders were shot by police while defending themselves/others.

                        Get back to us when you're done.
                        summer - winter - work

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I still question its effectiveness in all of this. While I won't deny it "could" have stopped this long before it reached the point it did, what is preventing more attacks? Someone gets P.O'd and decides to shoot someone. I think in some places it is a good preventative measure, in others it's not such a good idea.

                          We can talk about CHP's all day long, the bottom line is if someone is hell bent on doing damage it isn't too hard to disarm someone who's already carrying.

                          Having a CHP doesn't automatically mean that person will be able to stop a threat. I don't imagine students are taking a break from homework to brush up on their techniques and aiming.

                          As for the comment about 6 vs 33..... At face value I would agree with you, it's not as many dead. However, it is still an unacceptable loss and the majority of the public would not tolerate the death of an innocent student at the hands of the police. The family sure wouldn't, and beyond the lawsuit that would be slapped against the dept, what about the criminal charges that would likely be laid against the officer?

                          It's a complicated issue.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mirrain
                            I still question its effectiveness in all of this. While I won't deny it "could" have stopped this long before it reached the point it did, what is preventing more attacks? Someone gets P.O'd and decides to shoot someone. I think in some places it is a good preventative measure, in others it's not such a good idea.
                            How many instances has a CCW holder 'got PO'd and shot someone'?

                            We can talk about CHP's all day long, the bottom line is if someone is hell bent on doing damage it isn't too hard to disarm someone who's already carrying.
                            If someone is hell bent on doing damage, they're not going to need to disarm someone else to do it. This has been proven time and time again.

                            Having a CHP doesn't automatically mean that person will be able to stop a threat. I don't imagine students are taking a break from homework to brush up on their techniques and aiming.
                            No, it doesn't. But do you deny their chances will significantly improve? Remember the recent mall shooting?

                            As for the comment about 6 vs 33..... At face value I would agree with you, it's not as many dead. However, it is still an unacceptable loss and the majority of the public would not tolerate the death of an innocent student at the hands of the police. The family sure wouldn't, and beyond the lawsuit that would be slapped against the dept, what about the criminal charges that would likely be laid against the officer?

                            It's a complicated issue.
                            Yes, it is complicated.

                            I think I'm derailing this thread..
                            summer - winter - work

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              How many instances has a CCW holder 'got PO'd and shot someone'?
                              Happens everyday in domestic violence cases. Those just get less attention.

                              If someone is hell bent on doing damage, they're not going to need to disarm someone else to do it. This has been proven time and time again.
                              How has this been proven time and time again? If we look at cops who get disarmed, 9 times out of 10 they get shot with their weapons (for example).

                              No, it doesn't. But do you deny their chances will significantly improve?
                              It's difficult to say and depends on the environment I think. Any number of things could happen, some not so good ones.

                              Playing devil's advocate on the issue of course but I'm sure you see both sides of it. I'm lending a helping hand in derailing the thread too

                              Comment

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