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Should HR218 apply?

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  • Should HR218 apply?

    Should HR218 be amended to apply to Tribal Police Officers who are not BIA federally commissioned?

    What are your thoughts?

  • #2
    My fist thought is, yes, it should but then again, I don't know what BIA means.
    Fear not the armed citizen but rather the government that tries to disarm him.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by detsarg
      My fist thought is, yes, it should but then again, I don't know what BIA means.
      Bureau of Indian Affairs

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      • #4
        personally, no, not if they are not fed com.
        Why do we try so Hard for Little things, and so Little for Hard things?

        "There is no happiness without tears; no life without death. Beware, I will give you cause to weep"

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        • #5
          Why does is not apply to tribal police. Are they not sworn officers with arrest powers that work for a government?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mgrif
            Why does is not apply to tribal police. Are they not sworn officers with arrest powers that work for a government?
            Jeez, I'm card-carrying BIA 1/4 blood Osage Indian, and I haven't a real clue.

            My immediate reaction is that it's the various tribal governments who employ them, not the Federal Government - The tribal governments usually distrust the Feds...and are sovereign powers within their own boundaries. Memorandums of Understanding, agreements, "treaties", etc. are distinct between each Indian "nation" and the U.S. Gov't.

            But I will yield in my offered opinion to anyone who says they know for sure because they are one....or worked alongside them.
            "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

            Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

            Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mgrif
              Why does is not apply to tribal police. Are they not sworn officers with arrest powers that work for a government?

              If that were the case then 218 would also apply to Mexican officers, Canadian officers, German officers, so on and so forth.

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              • #8
                Should HR218 Apply?

                I'm not an attorney, but my personal understanding of HR218 is that it would apply to Tribal Police Officers. If there is any doubt, it should be ammended to include them. On a personal and I hope, common sense note, I'd certainly treat any Tribal Police Officer the same as any other sworn officer regarding HR 218.

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                • #9
                  Are Tribal officers subjected to the same state standards and testing? I think not, I am pretty sure that their powers of arrest are confined to the Indian property much like armed security. That said I don't think anyone who has not completed a state standards academy should fall under the umbrella of HR218.

                  Of course if I am wrong than disregard all of the prior text.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by StudChris
                    If that were the case then 218 would also apply to Mexican officers, Canadian officers, German officers, so on and so forth.
                    Mexican, Candian, German Officers don't work in the US.....they guys/gals do.

                    I would think they would fall under it.....depending how their charter is set up when it comes to their authority.....but I really don't know.

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                    • #11
                      HR 218 does not apply to Tribal Police that are not BIA officers. That being said, I don't know of a Tribe in CA that has a "police" department that doesn't require that the training, and testing are the same as any other CA police agency.

                      As far as standards go, Tim Dees can testify to the nepotism that can get in the way of being a letter of the law department.

                      The horror stories of the past (namely Warm Springs Oregon) have not helped the cause of Tribal police departments to get HR218 or CLETS/NCIC access.

                      I don't think it will ever happen. Mostly because as someone said their law enforcement authority is limited to the Reservation and no more.

                      I wanted to get input from all kinds of people who know nothing about the topic, to people who work side by side with Tribal Police Departments in mutual aid operations.

                      It is strange how it works sometimes though. Hoopa Valley Tribe in Northern Californoa are deputized by the local Sheriffs Department partly to give them access to NCIC, and also to have real law enforcement authority over those who are not tribal members.
                      Last edited by Rogerthump; 04-11-2007, 11:01 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rogerthump
                        HR 218 does not apply to Tribal Police that are not BIA officers. That being said, I don't know of a Tribe in CA that has a "police" department that doesn't require that the training, and testing are the same as any other CA police agency.

                        As far as standards go, Tim Dees can testify to the nepotism that can get in the way of being a letter of the law department.

                        The horror stories of the past (namely Warm Springs Oregon) have not helped the cause of Tribal police departments to get HR218 or CLETS/NCIC access.

                        I don't think it will ever happen. Mostly because as someone said their law enforcement authority is limited to the Reservation and no more.

                        I wanted to get input from all kinds of people who know nothing about the topic, to people who work side by side with Tribal Police Departments in mutual aid operations.

                        It is strange how it works sometimes though. Hoopa Valley Tribe in Northern Californoa are deputized by the local Sheriffs Department partly to give them access to NCIC, and also to have real law enforcement authority over those who are not tribal members.
                        Regardless....If I am working the road....and I pull over a Tribal Officer...I will do what I do with other LEOs....but thats just me.....

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                        • #13
                          Why exactly are non-BIA commissioned officers not protected by the LEOSA of 2004? Tribal governments are governmental agencies of the United States. The best way to think of them is as home rule federal municipalities. Kind of like Washington DC or a US Territory or Possession.
                          "Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders." by Jerry VanCook www.PrisonOfficer.Org

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                          • #14
                            If they aren't they should be. The tribal police around here have the same training, back up the other local depts and vice versa, etc, etc. They also employ non-indians(?) as officers. In my experience they receive the same respect, consideration, and cooperation as any other LEO in our area, as they should.

                            As an aside, their dept pays well and has all kinds of equipment and goodies thanks to the federal money they get.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by WC145
                              They also employ non-indians(?) as officers.
                              Many times there are a few tribal members as officers but they are from other tribes. That is not always the case.

                              The reason that tribes often employ non members as officers is in those communities there is a strong family bond to other tribal members which would get in the way of policing. It is an easy way for the tribal board to shift the governmental dirty work to outsiders while the whole time pulling the stings from behind the curtain. I would hate to be the "bad guy white man" in communities that have a bad attitude toward outsiders.

                              One man I have spoken to who worked for a Tribal Police Department has said "Not for love, nor money would I ever step foot back there again".
                              Last edited by Rogerthump; 04-12-2007, 05:05 AM.

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