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  • Illinois State Police

    I wonder if they teach their police recruits to do the same thing? Probably.


    http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm


    If You Are Confronted...

    diagonal image
    Before you fight
    Fighting for your safety may be necessary. However, if you start out fighting you cancel any other options that might be open to you. Since many attacks on women are not sexually motivated, and are designed to degrade and humiliate, talking your way out of it may be easier.

    * There is documentation of assailants that left a would-be-victim alone after she told him that she was pregnant and it would kill her baby. (Some case were women that were too old to even have a baby.)
    * Telling an attacker that you have VD or AIDS can discourage him.
    * It may sound disgusting, but putting your fingers into you throat and making yourself vomit usually gets results. (This method is not often used except as a last resort.)
    * Use your imagination and you can think of others.

    The above methods are particularly important if your assailant has a gun or knife, or there is more than one attacker. (Fighting would probably be futile.)
    If you must fight
    Use of a firearm to protect yourself or property is not recommended.

    * Guns stolen from residences are a primary way of getting guns into the hands of criminals.
    * Half of all the women that fire a gun trying to protect themselves shoot someone they do not want to, i.e. friend, neighbors, relatives, etc.
    * Be aware of those times and places where there is a potential for attack and be prepared to defend yourself.
    o parking lots
    o walking at night
    o waiting for a bus
    o elevators
    o other you will learn to recognize

    Articles common to your handbag that make useful defense weapons.

    * nail file
    * rat tail comb
    * teasing brush
    * pens and pencils
    * keys
    * anything rigid

    Concentrate on these areas only when combating an assailant.

    * groin
    * eyes
    * ears
    * nose
    * throat

    You should not swing at an assailant. Roundhouse or overhand blows are easy to deflect or evade. Your movements should be made with all your strength, and should be straight jabs. Remember that screaming may be just as important to your defense as any weapon.
    "Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders." by Jerry VanCook www.PrisonOfficer.Org

  • #2
    Originally posted by hankrearden2000
    I wonder if they teach their police recruits to do the same thing? Probably.
    http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm
    What's your point? What do you know about the ISP and their defensive tactics program? Obviously nothing.
    The info on the website is a quick reference, hardly a detailed defensive tactics lesson plan. It's to give a person who has no defensive tactics training some pointers on how to protect themselves.
    183 FBINA

    Comment


    • #3
      The point is that it's bad advice.
      "Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders." by Jerry VanCook www.PrisonOfficer.Org

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by hankrearden2000
        The point is that it's bad advice.
        Really? What part?
        The info provided is common use of force info taught by many recognized defensive tactics experts. Remember that the target audience are not trained in any use of force, nor are they likey to receive any hands on training. The target audience are the soccer moms who want to know what to do but don't want to or can't get formal training.
        So what would you suggest?
        183 FBINA

        Comment


        • #5
          I suggest that they stop encouraging passivity. The predators of the world focus on the easy prey. They spot passive people a mile away.

          I would very much like to see the emperical data behind this assertion:

          Half of all the women that fire a gun trying to protect themselves shoot someone they do not want to, i.e. friend, neighbors, relatives, etc.
          Here's a little better example of a safety brochure for women:

          http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSH...es/SHP-447.pdf
          "Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders." by Jerry VanCook www.PrisonOfficer.Org

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hankrearden2000
            I suggest that they stop encouraging passivity. The predators of the world focus on the easy prey.
            If that's the message you got out of it then you didn't understand the message. That's not at all what is being relayed. Guess you only read the first couple of lines and then stopped and you didn't get down the latter 1/2 of the page.
            The MO brochure you reference is nearly identical to one the ISP also provides in classes/presentations. Just because it's not on the web doesn't mean it's not available. We hand out that stuff by the truck load.
            183 FBINA

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by hankrearden2000
              I suggest that they stop encouraging passivity. The predators of the world focus on the easy prey. They spot passive people a mile away.

              I would very much like to see the emperical data behind this assertion:



              Here's a little better example of a safety brochure for women:

              http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSH...es/SHP-447.pdf
              I saw your brochure and upon a quick glance it provided useful information on steps to take to avoid being a victim.....the preventive side if you will. It is all good advice and I dont think anybody will dispute the content and purpose of what is in the brochure.

              The Missouri pamphlet articulates what to do to avoid an attack.....the Illinois pamphlet tries to give tips on what do do when you are in that "oh crap" moment and the attack is underway. I am not trying to referee but I think both states have provided useful pamphlets. The Illinois pamphlet was written to allow citizens with no fighting skills or even a warrior mentality to try to thwart and resist an attack. The Missouri pamphlet explained what an untrained civilian should do to try and avoid an attack or avoid being a victim. Also, I think it goes without saying that MO is a CCW state wherein IL is not. The variables have changed slightly when a gun can enter the picture hence the remark reference the weapon and its use in IL. But that is another debate.

              IL and MO are trying to do the same thing just under different rules.....whether you get the ball in the end zone or you tag home plate, you have still scored.
              You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cityblusuit
                I saw your brochure and upon a quick glance it provided useful information on steps to take to avoid being a victim.....the preventive side if you will. It is all good advice and I dont think anybody will dispute the content and purpose of what is in the brochure..
                Very good points. Excellent. "some people" have an agenda even when they don't understand the intent of the product. He posted the same thing stirring the pot on Glocktalk. Too bad he jumped to a conclusion that isn't there without knowing the facts. If he thinks that's the only brochure the ISP prints then he really doesn't understand the way things work.
                On an unrelated topic, who's going to be your new chief?
                183 FBINA

                Comment


                • #9
                  He posted the same thing stirring the pot on Glocktalk.
                  If you are referring to this "he" you are mistaken. Here's where I found it:

                  http://www.okshooters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1836

                  Why do you not address the
                  Half of all the women that fire a gun trying to protect themselves shoot someone they do not want to, i.e. friend, neighbors, relatives, etc.
                  B.S?
                  Last edited by hankrearden2000; 04-10-2007, 09:46 PM.
                  "Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders." by Jerry VanCook www.PrisonOfficer.Org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ISPCAPT
                    Very good points. Excellent. "some people" have an agenda even when they don't understand the intent of the product. He posted the same thing stirring the pot on Glocktalk. Too bad he jumped to a conclusion that isn't there without knowing the facts. If he thinks that's the only brochure the ISP prints then he really doesn't understand the way things work.
                    On an unrelated topic, who's going to be your new chief?
                    I'll PM ya
                    You cant arrest me...I know my Commandments!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hankrearden2000
                      Why do you not address the B.S?
                      Do you have facts for IL that show otherwise?
                      Last edited by ISPCAPT; 04-10-2007, 10:59 PM.
                      183 FBINA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No I don't. Enlighten me. The burden of proof is on the one making the factual assertion. Do you agree with it?

                        BTW, thanks for turning me on to Glock Talk. I was aware of it, but I haven't paid much attention to it until now. I joined up! I also found the thread you mentioned. I find it interesting that you didn't call anyone to task over there even though some over there were a bit more critical of the publication than I was.
                        "Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders." by Jerry VanCook www.PrisonOfficer.Org

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hankrearden2000
                          No I don't. Enlighten me. The burden of proof is on the one making the factual assertion. Do you agree with it?
                          So you don't know anything about it, you don't have any info on the stats, and you don't understand the intended message. And you're calling BS?
                          And yes, I do agree with those numbers from the calls I've been on.
                          You might wonder where the ISP gets the stats. There is a Bureau in the ISP, which I commanded for a time, that does nothing but gather stats, does strategic planning, and then prepares the reports. Some places would call them intel analyists altho that is not a title we used as we had another bureau that did actual intel gathering. I had 73 employees in the Bureau. That one Bureau is larger than most PDs. If you're from Podunk PD and needed statistical data for a grant or some program we had the people who knew where and how to get the data and knew how to prepare it for presentation.

                          Originally posted by hankrearden2000
                          I find it interesting that you didn't call anyone to task over there even though some over there were a bit more critical of the publication than I was.
                          Because GT is full of knuckleheads and internet commandos who run off the head without the facts, think they know everything about everything, and go flying off the handle without anything to back up their comments. I expected a better type of person on officer.com, particularly someone who claims to be in LE. Now that you have a bit more info concerning the facts maybe you can explain it to them.
                          Last edited by ISPCAPT; 04-11-2007, 07:28 AM.
                          183 FBINA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And yes, I do agree with those numbers from the calls I've been on.
                            Nothing emperical there unless you've been on all the calls in which women have used firearms to defend themselves.



                            You might wonder where the ISP gets the stats. There is a Bureau in the ISP, which I commanded for a time, that does nothing but gather stats, does strategic planning, and then prepares the reports. Some places would call them intel analyists altho that is not a title we used as we had another bureau that did actual intel gathering. I had 73 employees in the Bureau. That one Bureau is larger than most PDs. If you're from Podunk PD and needed statistical data for a grant or some program we had the people who knew where and how to get the data and knew how to prepare it for presentation.
                            Excellent! With your contacts and inside info you should go ahead and post a link to the results of their studies. I'm sure that the data is stored on a server somewhere, and why wouldn't something like that be public?
                            "Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders." by Jerry VanCook www.PrisonOfficer.Org

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hankrearden2000
                              Nothing emperical there unless you've been on all the calls in which women have used firearms to defend themselves.
                              Me respond on all calls? Please! We're talking statewide. Try trolling something else.
                              I gave my personal experiences as to the calls I went on.
                              Originally posted by hankrearden2000
                              Excellent! With your contacts and inside info you should go ahead and post a link to the results of their studies. I'm sure that the data is stored on a server somewhere, and why wouldn't something like that be public?
                              And exactly which studies would you like? As I stated, when I commanded the section I had 73 employees and we did all kinds of studies on all kinds of topics for LEA all over the state. I and every other district commander, PIO, Director, etc have given many press conferences where data was freely given out to the media.
                              Your assumption there is a server available for public access is as erroneous as your other assumptions. Doesn't exist. Sorry.
                              183 FBINA

                              Comment

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