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  • Originally posted by SubCop82
    Wow- you are WAY to liberal to be the wanna be cop you acted like in the "cops frisk" thread!!!!!
    and you think too much inside the box... how many more labels will I get? wanna be cop? liberal? whats next???

    Comment


    • Some might say that it's wars and prisons that wreck good people and make bad people worse. Few here would listen, but some might say it
      shepherdess extraordinaire

      "Man stands in his own shadow and wonders why it is dark."- Zen proverb

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
        There are a lot of criticisms here that are *WAY* off target.

        1) Those of us who are for legalization but have never used: What's the problem here? Yes, drugs are bad. It's just we see the drug war causing more harm than the drugs. Trying to ban the drugs doesn't work, how about trying reducing the harm they cause instead?

        2) The doper in public: Have you seen any of us suggest repealing laws against public intoxication?

        3) Co-workers: Again, see any of us saying you should be allowed to work high?

        4) Comparison to prohibition: So what if it was a long time ago. What's different now? The pattern looks the same to me.

        5) The harm done: Tobacco kills somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of it's users.

        6) The harm to others: The prime suspect I hear of is alcohol.
        And all these people who are going to now use legal drugs, and become productive citizens, are going to obey rules such as, don't drive high or don't do drugs at work?

        In all seriousness, you need to volunteer with a police victim service unit and step in world we see everyday.

        Also, are you going to continue ignoring my request for your source info on that comment you made about successful heroin studies?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by fair witness
          Some might say that it's wars and prisons that wreck good people and make bad people worse. Few here would listen, but some might say it
          There is some truth in that, but it's not that simple. Prison works for some, fail most, and in few occasions it's not nearly enough punishment.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by NYSPGreg
            I don't judge drug use for the general public at all...
            this is where you and the government are different. the government MUST judge drug use on the society, not the individual
            I simply states that it is not the government's job to make laws about what to ingest or not and make you a criminal for not 'obeying' what it suggests harmful for your body!!!
            wrong. the polio vaccine proves it.

            If I binge drink one night and make it home w/o disturbing peace by taking public transportation then I will not be arrested simply for ingesting alcohol right??? then why arresting someone in a similar situation because what he ingested wasn't alcohol, it was opium, heroin or any other substance the Gov deem illegal?
            you are failing to see the bigger picture here.
            like most people you are only thinking of yourself.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fëanor
              So? Neither can the nicotine high from tobacco, or the drunkenness from alcohol.
              you don't get high from nicotine.
              and yes, you can regulate the high from alcohol.

              Neither can the side effects of morphine, Vicoden, or Nyquil.
              wouldn't know about these, i've never used them.

              Your own arbitrary qualifications for a "national drug" are unrelated to whether or not the drug should be legal.
              i consider them very relevant.
              what would you suggest the criteria be for the national drug?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by leopold99
                you are failing to see the bigger picture here.
                like most people you are only thinking of yourself.
                Bingo!!!

                It's that, and thinking that everyone is like themselves. It's "those poor people, imagine if I was one of them. How would I want to be treated?" The fact of the matter is that they aren't one of those people and they have no idea want most of those people are like.

                They feel sorry for the drug addict instead of the swath of victims they leave their wake. They hear B&E and think nothing more than a property crime was committed. They don't think about what that property meant to those people. I've been to numerous B&E calls where things belonging to deceased loved ones were taken, like watches, jewelery, and second world war medals were taken. It's pathetic.

                What's even more pathetic, is confusing who the actual victims are.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by leopold99
                  doesn't the image of a wasted old homeless alcoholic frighten you in the least?
                  Yes it does and this is one thing that you won't see very much on TV or any other media.Booze is always portrayed as glamorous,something the rich and powerful indulge in.


                  the problem with marijuana is the inability of the user to regulate the high.
                  you cannot simply smoke another joint and get higher than the first one.
                  we don't have that with alcohol. you can get a tiny buzz or you can get thouroghly smashed on your *** from the same type, beer, whiskey, you name it.
                  Agreed.There are more variables.I don't want anyone who is in a responsible position,be it driving a car or what have you to be under the influence of anything.Given all things being equal,someone getting drunk or someone getting high,I think the evidence shows that people are more likely to do really stupid things while drunk than stoned.Like I said,I've never known of anyone committing a violent act while under the influence of MJ.Maybe some officers on this thread have experienced otherwise,but I've never seen it.

                  yes, it seems a good way to go.
                  but in this case you'll have to deal witrh moonshiners and homegrowers.
                  moonshiners are the most deadly because of a little thing called methanol.

                  also drug testing unfairly discriminates against MJ. you can test positive for MJ upto 3 weeks AFTER you smoked it.
                  this isn't true of alcohol, cocaine, and LSD.
                  I don't think prohibiting the usage as was done in the 1920's is the answer.I think that exacerbates the problem as it creates a whole niche business for organized crime.I can see regulations such as are already in place and personally I think MJ should be decriminalized down to small amounts for personal use.I see no logic in locking people up for this.

                  I think what needs to happen is that the public's image needs to change concerning drug use.It's not necessarily a moral issue,but more of a medical one.Drug abuse is more of a symptom of a much deeper disease or issue rather than an issue unto itself.Perhaps if the deeper issues were properly dealt with,such things as drug use/abuse would lessen.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Newsfilman
                    Yes it does and this is one thing that you won't see very much on TV or any other media.Booze is always portrayed as glamorous,something the rich and powerful indulge in.



                    Agreed.There are more variables.I don't want anyone who is in a responsible position,be it driving a car or what have you to be under the influence of anything.Given all things being equal,someone getting drunk or someone getting high,I think the evidence shows that people are more likely to do really stupid things while drunk than stoned.Like I said,I've never known of anyone committing a violent act while under the influence of MJ.Maybe some officers on this thread have experienced otherwise,but I've never seen it.



                    I don't think prohibiting the usage as was done in the 1920's is the answer.I think that exacerbates the problem as it creates a whole niche business for organized crime.I can see regulations such as are already in place and personally I think MJ should be decriminalized down to small amounts for personal use.I see no logic in locking people up for this.

                    I think what needs to happen is that the public's image needs to change concerning drug use.It's not necessarily a moral issue,but more of a medical one.Drug abuse is more of a symptom of a much deeper disease or issue rather than an issue unto itself.Perhaps if the deeper issues were properly dealt with,such things as drug use/abuse would lessen.
                    Bingo! Drug abuse is a symptom. Spiritually grounded people don't tend to get addicted. They may opt to alter their consciousness at very carefully chosen moments, but not in the obsessive kind of way that leads to Stupidity While Intoxicated stuff.
                    A saner society would give people less reason to want to escape.
                    shepherdess extraordinaire

                    "Man stands in his own shadow and wonders why it is dark."- Zen proverb

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by leopold99
                      you cannot simply smoke another joint and get higher than the first one.
                      Yes you can. I'd be happy to smoke 2 joints in a row to prove it for you Likewise, I could smoke only 1/2 of a joint and get less high.

                      Originally posted by leopold99
                      i consider them very relevant.
                      what would you suggest the criteria be for the national drug?
                      My criteria would be that it not exist. Why the heck would you want a "national drug"?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fëanor
                        Yes you can. I'd be happy to smoke 2 joints in a row to prove it for you Likewise, I could smoke only 1/2 of a joint and get less high.
                        you are not being honest.

                        My criteria would be that it not exist. Why the heck would you want a "national drug"?
                        in the post in question i stated "let's suppose we wanted a national drug"
                        http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...77&postcount=9

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by leopold99
                          you are not being honest.
                          I really am.

                          Look at it scientifically, if that helps. Marijuana's high is caused mostly by a compound commonly known as THC. The more THC you put into your system, the higher you will get.

                          You don't have to take it from me, there are plenty of others that will tell you: the more pot you smoke, the more stoned you will be.

                          Originally posted by leopold99
                          in the post in question i stated "let's suppose we wanted a national drug"
                          http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...77&postcount=9
                          But why make that supposition? Because you said so?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by fair witness
                            Bingo! Drug abuse is a symptom. Spiritually grounded people don't tend to get addicted.

                            A saner society would give people less reason to want to escape.
                            I can totally agree with that.

                            One of the failings of "legalization of drugs" studies, is that they on concentrate on the drugs and not what actually led the people to trying them. (Not that everyone who becomes a drug addict had an issue that led them to it, but still many do)

                            I would add something more to your statement. People with a strong sense of belonging and powerful social bonds don't tend to become addicts.

                            Comment


                            • yes! to all of that.
                              I knew a guy, a sweet, bright, shy man, who was a serious alcoholic for years. I'm talking greet the day with beer for breakfast, with reefer and sometimes coke on the side.
                              After knowing him for years, he introduced me to his grandmother and sister. Come to find out, when dude was eleven, he stuck a kitchen knife into a boyfriend of the mom's who'd been raping the sister. Nobody believed the kids and he did time in a juvenile facility, where some other not very nice things happened to him.
                              After finally coming out with all this and talking it through, he asked me for a ride to rehab. That was maybe 7-8 years ago now...last i heard he has a job, a car, a life, and a relationship with his family. He even drinks once in a while without going overboard.
                              shepherdess extraordinaire

                              "Man stands in his own shadow and wonders why it is dark."- Zen proverb

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by fair witness
                                yes! to all of that.
                                I knew a guy, a sweet, bright, shy man, who was a serious alcoholic for years. I'm talking greet the day with beer for breakfast, with reefer and sometimes coke on the side.
                                After knowing him for years, he introduced me to his grandmother and sister. Come to find out, when dude was eleven, he stuck a kitchen knife into a boyfriend of the mom's who'd been raping the sister. Nobody believed the kids and he did time in a juvenile facility, where some other not very nice things happened to him.
                                After finally coming out with all this and talking it through, he asked me for a ride to rehab. That was maybe 7-8 years ago now...last i heard he has a job, a car, a life, and a relationship with his family. He even drinks once in a while without going overboard.
                                Here is the thing. Lets look at your above post. Your friend, is a good person who messes up, mind you temporarily by the sound of it, his life.

                                And how did this come to be?

                                He has a traumatic incident (as did his entire family) which more than likely there were no resources to help them through.

                                If we peel the layers of the onion back how does this all happen?

                                How did the family unit break down?
                                What happened to mom to date such a freak?
                                Where was mom the night the sister was being raped?
                                Did any of them get counseling afterwards?
                                Where is mom now?
                                What happened to the bad guy?
                                What led him down the road to being a rapist?
                                What happened to him as a child?

                                My guess is that due to the lack of social welfare programs, that all of them were forced to deal (or not) with all of these problems themselves, starting all the way back with Grandma/Grandpa, etc.

                                Now back to your friend, is even drinking occasionally a good idea for someone with that kind of history?

                                Most alcoholics will say no. It's a slippery slope. I don't know what the stats are for recovering alcoholics that drink socially, but I would guess that nearly 99% fall off the wagon. And what cost, ruining another generation or two? Dissolving that sense of belonging?

                                In the former Soviet Union they used to give out free vodka, and nowhere has there been a higher rate of alcoholism in the world.

                                Imagine you're friends life if the state provided his alcohol because he was an "alcoholic" an "addict".

                                Would he have straightened himself out to where he is now? My guess is he'd be getting up in the morning and drinking his prescription beer.

                                Societies need to work on fixing the problems that lead to drug abuse instead of providing drugs. And as a cop, I believe that one part of that by putting people in jails to remove the causation of some those problems. The rapist being the perfect example.

                                Comment

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