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  • Originally posted by NYSPGreg
    speak not on what u don't know... I've done plenty of protesting AGAINST the patriot act which has VERY close resemblance to the reichtag fire decree of nazi germany.. thats a wholeeee other topic!!!

    hard drugs eventually become an addiction but before they became an addiction they were a choice! not a choice for me or you to decide, but to the individual in question to take. The best you can do is inform and make ppl aware of the consequences... you cannot force ppl to steer away!

    Why do ppl want to rely more and more on the government to control their lives??? wasn't it what the colonies rebelled against in the first place? isn't dissent the HIGHEST form of patriotism?

    PPL will complain about getting their phones tapped w/o warrants (VALID reason to protest and revolt) but turn around and allow the government to regulate what to ingest or not to the point of make them criminals if they don't comply.

    I wish this argument was brought up while the founding fathers were drafting the constitution BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE, to see where they would stand on this issue
    The same place they are now. The patriot act and Nazi germany....do you have the slightest clue what you are talking about? Take a closer look at history, I doubt you will pay the same penalties in the US you would have if you revolted against the Nazi's.

    Okay so the government should just not take any additional steps to safeguard the US....so are you satisfied to see another 9/11? What would the government care what the average person has to say on the phone? Do you really believe they have the resources to follow it that closely? They are using it as a means to try and stop attacks, not bust someone for calling their dealer or the hooker down the street.

    I'd suggest taking a closer look at the cause and effect of drugs in society before you go with the blanket statement that drugs only affect the user. That statement alone tells me you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mirrain
      The same place they are now. The patriot act and Nazi germany....do you have the slightest clue what you are talking about? Take a closer look at history, I doubt you will pay the same penalties in the US you would have if you revolted against the Nazi's.

      Okay so the government should just not take any additional steps to safeguard the US....so are you satisfied to see another 9/11? What would the government care what the average person has to say on the phone? Do you really believe they have the resources to follow it that closely? They are using it as a means to try and stop attacks, not bust someone for calling their dealer or the hooker down the street.

      I'd suggest taking a closer look at the cause and effect of drugs in society before you go with the blanket statement that drugs only affect the user. That statement alone tells me you have no idea what you are talking about.
      I won't touch the other points you brought forth since they will drift this thread more off course..

      drugs don't affect the user only no.. SAME WITH ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTE!!

      does alcohol only affect the drunk????
      does eating your *** to obesity only affect the overweight ***** w/o control over his hunger?

      what are your suggestions? criminalizing cigarette? going back to prohibition? making it a mandate of law to have a daily calories intake limit based on gender and height???

      wow... so lovely... whats next? your baby cries too much at night you gonna call washington to fix that for you too?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NYSPGreg
        so you wouldn't think it is unconstitutional for the government to criminalize smoking tobacco??? even in your own home?

        explain to me how someone is getting victimized when john doe sits home and snork his cocain??? you want an example??? RICHARD PRYOR we ALL know he was heavy on drug use and bought it with is own money... besides burning himself from getting too high, who did he victimize???????
        Do I think it would be unconstitutional.... it's iffy. Should the government be responsible to spend millions or billions of dollars on people to keep them alive because of something they've done to themselves for years? Let's not forget the hazards of eating junk food, so what do you think? It's not a reasonable suggestion. I have never once gone to a call where people were murdered over cigarettes. I also don't recall seeing a community that went downhill because of smoking either....i sure have over drugs though. Let's stay on track of the original topic. If you want to discuss these details or conspiracy stories, open an different thread on it.

        Think about what you're saying. Richard Pryor got SOOOOO high he lit himself on fire.... and you honestly want us to believe that drugs at home are harmless? Does that sound reasonable to you because it sure doesn't to me. You are talking about 1 person verses hundreds of thousands who have killed, robbed, etc, etc, etc, over and while under the influence of drugs. I'm sure even Richard Pryor had his moments and I'm taking a stab in the dark here but I imagine you didn't hang out with him, so how would you know?

        I don't care if it's your money, the babysitter's, or your far off relative who pays for the drugs, you can bet it's not going to support the economy or investments. I have never met a drug dealer who was saving for retirement and trading on wallstreet or putting the drug money into RRSP's. I have known more than a few who have spent it on more drugs, guns, and ways not to get caught.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NYSPGreg
          I won't touch the other points you brought forth since they will drift this thread more off course..

          drugs don't affect the user only no.. SAME WITH ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTE!!

          does alcohol only affect the drunk????
          does eating your *** to obesity only affect the overweight ***** w/o control over his hunger?

          what are your suggestions? criminalizing cigarette? going back to prohibition? making it a mandate of law to have a daily calories intake limit based on gender and height???

          wow... so lovely... whats next? your baby cries too much at night you gonna call washington to fix that for you too?
          I have no idea where you are getting that. It's like i'm reading an arguement you are having with yourself. These were things you brought up first. You can pour all the sarcasm you want over this, it's only diminishing your points of view imho.

          It IS illegal to be drunk in public, drive drunk. Leave cigarettes out of it because they DO NOT IMPAIR a person's ability to think and act. Alcohol and drugs do. If you are trying to convince me that alcohol is bad, you'll get no arguement here. So we've established that you agree alcohol is a bad thing since you keep quoting it over and over again. Now alcohol, which is a drug is legal....so if it is a bad thing...why are we discussing illegal drugs again? It would seem to me if you think the legal drugs are bad, the illegal ones aren't any better.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mirrain
            Do I think it would be unconstitutional.... it's iffy. Should the government be responsible to spend millions or billions of dollars on people to keep them alive because of something they've done to themselves for years? Let's not forget the hazards of eating junk food, so what do you think? It's not a reasonable suggestion. I have never once gone to a call where people were murdered over cigarettes. I also don't recall seeing a community that went downhill because of smoking either....i sure have over drugs though. Let's stay on track of the original topic. If you want to discuss these details or conspiracy stories, open an different thread on it.

            Think about what you're saying. Richard Pryor got SOOOOO high he lit himself on fire.... and you honestly want us to believe that drugs at home are harmless? Does that sound reasonable to you because it sure doesn't to me. You are talking about 1 person verses hundreds of thousands who have killed, robbed, etc, etc, etc, over and while under the influence of drugs. I'm sure even Richard Pryor had his moments and I'm taking a stab in the dark here but I imagine you didn't hang out with him, so how would you know?

            I don't care if it's your money, the babysitter's, or your far off relative who pays for the drugs, you can bet it's not going to support the economy or investments. I have never met a drug dealer who was saving for retirement and trading on wallstreet or putting the drug money into RRSP's. I have known more than a few who have spent it on more drugs, guns, and ways not to get caught.
            one of your law enforcement compadre in the name of Michal Ruppert already proved that wall street is flush of money investments

            you wanna talk about money the government spends? billions are spent on healthcare for ppl not exercising and eating junk food, for smoking cigarette, for adverse long term effects of heavy drinking, etc... so should the government, as a preemption and deterrent, criminalize any and every activity performed by a citizen that could potentially become a liability in the future?

            people commit crimes for a variety of reasons. Ted Bundy killed a few hundred women and he was sober and drug free. The BTK Killer killed quite a few himself and he was sober and drug free... etc

            I'm glad none of you folks are close to have the powers of God. If you do believe in God, he created us at his image and gave us FREE WILL. We are allowed to hate him, sin and do as we please... we just are well aware of the consequences!!! What is so hard to understand in this concept??? If God had practice any ounce of preemption, do you think we would even exist to have this discussion right now???

            Comment


            • Wallstreet for your average crack dealer? I doubt it, lol. Higher end I have no doubt but we can continue to spin the details and play "what if" all day.

              The debate is about drugs, not what is unhealthy vs healthy. Another topic for another thread. So you think it's wrong that all that money is spent on that, well my friend, legalizing MJ is only going to add to the burden. You're posts detail more reasons to keep MJ and other drugs illegal than to legalize it.

              What do serial killers have to do with this? We're not discussing a person's state of mind or level of influence when they kill someone. I don't recall anyone pointing out that drugs lead to mass murders by each individual user. I'm sure while some may not have been, there are some who have so what is your point?

              Where did the religious preach come from? and what exactly does it have to do with the legalities of drugs?

              I've stated my points. Introducing irrelevant details and what-if's is doing nothing, the horse is dead. If you feel compelled to carry it further, pm me, otherwise I'm dropping this debate with you since it's getting further and further away from the original topic. If you wanted to debate the discussion I put back on you, great, but that's not what is happening. I countered your points and find a different trail of things that for the most part, have absolutely nothing to do with any of this.
              Last edited by Mirrain; 04-08-2007, 06:30 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mirrain
                Wallstreet for your average crack dealer? I doubt it, lol. Higher end I have no doubt but we can continue to spin the details and play "what if" all day.

                The debate is about drugs, not what is unhealthy vs healthy. Another topic for another thread. So you think it's wrong that all that money is spent on that, well my friend, legalizing MJ is only going to add to the burden. You're posts detail more reasons to keep MJ and other drugs illegal than to legalize it.

                What do serial killers have to do with this? We're not discussing a person's state of mind or level of influence when they kill someone. I don't recall anyone pointing out that drugs lead to mass murders by each individual user. I'm sure while some may not have been, there are some who have so what is your point?

                Where did the religious preach come from? and what exactly does it have to do with the legalities of drugs?

                I've stated my points. Introducing irrelevant details and what-if's is doing nothing, the horse is dead. If you feel compelled to carry it further, pm me, otherwise I'm dropping this debate with you since it's getting further and further away from the original topic. If you wanted to debate the discussion I put back on you, great, but that's not what is happening. I countered your points and find a different trail of things that for the most part, have absolutely nothing to do with any of this.
                there are no what ifs in my posts at all .. YOU ARE the one who said drugs bring murder, hence my serial killers example..

                and hmmm yessir wall street is FLUSH with drug money... I could careless whether it comes from an average dealer or the head honchos... it is a fact!

                why am I even entertaining this conversation with you when you probably don't understand that americans DO NOT solve ALLLLLL of their problems at the federal level?? you are from canada and you folks up there will call the federal for any and EVERYTHING! not so in the US of A.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NYSPGreg
                  so you wouldn't think it is unconstitutional for the government to criminalize smoking tobacco??? even in your own home?

                  explain to me how someone is getting victimized when john doe sits home and snork his cocain?????
                  what about when the doper is so doped up that they're not paying attention to anything and their kid falls into the backyard pool or gets out the front door and gets abducted or hit by a car?

                  what about when the kids accidentally get stuck with a syringe that's got hepC or HIV on it?

                  what about the PCPer that it takes at least 6 or 7 officers to control and not all of them are getting out of the fight unscathed?

                  what about when the crackhead coming off his 3 day binge falls asleep driving and crashes?

                  this is not counting all the people that get killed that are involved in actual drug trade.

                  and these are all real life examples just like your richard pryor one. i WISH drugs only affected the people that used them.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NYSPGreg
                    I won't touch the other points you brought forth since they will drift this thread more off course..

                    drugs don't affect the user only no.. SAME WITH ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTE!!

                    does alcohol only affect the drunk????
                    does eating your *** to obesity only affect the overweight ***** w/o control over his hunger?

                    what are your suggestions? criminalizing cigarette? going back to prohibition? making it a mandate of law to have a daily calories intake limit based on gender and height???

                    wow... so lovely... whats next? your baby cries too much at night you gonna call washington to fix that for you too?
                    now i think you need to go to school or read a book or something. anything to keep you from posting in this thread again.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NYSPGreg
                      you probably don't understand that americans DO NOT solve ALLLLLL of their problems at the federal level?? you are from canada and you folks up there will call the federal for any and EVERYTHING! not so in the US of A.
                      Ever heard of city/provincial police up here? You're absolutely right, all the city police are actually mounties in disguise. And to think we almost fooled ya.

                      I know more about the American criminal justice system than you might assume. The vast majority of drug related studies I've done through courses are American ones.

                      I better get going. I have to pull the red serge out of the closet and find my horse and head downtown to tell the rest of the Mounties we have a drug problem. Toodles!

                      Comment


                      • There are a lot of criticisms here that are *WAY* off target.

                        1) Those of us who are for legalization but have never used: What's the problem here? Yes, drugs are bad. It's just we see the drug war causing more harm than the drugs. Trying to ban the drugs doesn't work, how about trying reducing the harm they cause instead?

                        2) The doper in public: Have you seen any of us suggest repealing laws against public intoxication?

                        3) Co-workers: Again, see any of us saying you should be allowed to work high?

                        4) Comparison to prohibition: So what if it was a long time ago. What's different now? The pattern looks the same to me.

                        5) The harm done: Tobacco kills somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of it's users.

                        6) The harm to others: The prime suspect I hear of is alcohol.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
                          There are a lot of criticisms here that are *WAY* off target.

                          1) Those of us who are for legalization but have never used: What's the problem here? Yes, drugs are bad. It's just we see the drug war causing more harm than the drugs. Trying to ban the drugs doesn't work, how about trying reducing the harm they cause instead?

                          Causing more harm in what ways? Legalizing MJ is not going to stop drug/gang violence. We aren't talking about banning a drug that is already legal. My question is, if you don't know how MJ affects you, how can you possibly say it's okay for legalization? If the research out there isn't enough, where does it stop?

                          2) The doper in public: Have you seen any of us suggest repealing laws against public intoxication?

                          Just because the law is in place isn't to say it won't happen. Use alcohol for example.

                          3) Co-workers: Again, see any of us saying you should be allowed to work high?

                          Who's going to manage it? What testing are employers going to have to employ to be 100% sure?

                          4) Comparison to prohibition: So what if it was a long time ago. What's different now? The pattern looks the same to me.

                          How is the pattern the same? We aren't talking about the gov't all the sudden deciding to criminalize something but the opposite.

                          5) The harm done: Tobacco kills somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of it's users.

                          Medical research suggests MJ carries 7 times the tar than cigarettes, can cause a person to become EDP and various other effects. Smoking causes cancer....apparently so does diet Coke

                          6) The harm to others: The prime suspect I hear of is alcohol.

                          Exactly. And why? Because people get behind the wheel and do stupid things, which if you make more accesible to the public, MJ will soon be the same. Being stoned while driving is no different than being drunk off booze.
                          I think this has been beat into the ground. Those of you who want it legalized can come back every other week to view a new thread on it. In the meantime I'm off to discuss more intelligent topics.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NYSPGreg
                            speak not on what u don't know... I've done plenty of protesting AGAINST the patriot act which has VERY close resemblance to the reichtag fire decree of nazi germany.. thats a wholeeee other topic!!!

                            hard drugs eventually become an addiction but before they became an addiction they were a choice! not a choice for me or you to decide, but to the individual in question to take. The best you can do is inform and make ppl aware of the consequences... you cannot force ppl to steer away!

                            Why do ppl want to rely more and more on the government to control their lives??? wasn't it what the colonies rebelled against in the first place? isn't dissent the HIGHEST form of patriotism?

                            PPL will complain about getting their phones tapped w/o warrants (VALID reason to protest and revolt) but turn around and allow the government to regulate what to ingest or not to the point of make them criminals if they don't comply.

                            I wish this argument was brought up while the founding fathers were drafting the constitution BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE, to see where they would stand on this issue

                            Wow- you are WAY to liberal to be the wanna be cop you acted like in the "cops frisk" thread!!!!!
                            "Say hello to my leeeetle friend"

                            Comment


                            • Legalization of drugs is just one other way that our country is giving up. We have enough problems already, thank you very much. Take this liberal bullsh*t to Europe when you leave as far as I care.

                              I tried drugs when I was young and stupid. I am glad that they are illegal and had I gotten caught, I should have paid the price (juvenile at the time, though).

                              Our society cannot handle porn, for God's sake, how in the world can we handle drugs. Drugs right now that are ILLEGAL are tearing whole communities apart. You think that it is because they are SO hard to get? Oh, the real problem is that they are from "the underworld" and that gets "good people" dirty? Really?

                              No, drugs WRECK good people and make bad people WORSE. There is nothing good to come from quitting this fight.
                              "Socrates was a philosopher. He talked a lot. They killed him." unknown to me.

                              "Evil prevails when good men do nothing."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by leopold99
                                i suppose.

                                it doesn't address the fact that the high from marijuana cannot be easily regulated by the user.
                                So? Neither can the nicotine high from tobacco, or the drunkenness from alcohol. Neither can the side effects of morphine, Vicoden, or Nyquil.

                                Your own arbitrary qualifications for a "national drug" are unrelated to whether or not the drug should be legal.

                                Originally posted by scratch13
                                Feanor: would you rather have your 10 year old daughter walking through a park with sober people lying around or drug addicts lying around?
                                1 - I wouldn't care, as long as they were laying down, minding their own business.

                                2 - If I had one, my 10 year old daughter wouldn't be wandering through the park, I would be there with her. I don't trust a single one of those people in the park; sober or not.

                                Comment

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