What next

[DesertRat]

This is what happens when we start policing agendas instead of individual behavior:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,25425,00.html

[Darkwulfe]

Just one thing bugs me about stories like that. Why the hell does it matter if she was an honor student or not? It makes no sense that because she got good grades she should not be charged with it. I wonder if the story would have even been published if she had not been an honor student.

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Darkwulfe
[email protected]

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"

[DMS 525]

I'm beginning to think these "zero tolerance" policies are making zero sense. What do the cooks in that school's cafeteria use to cut food with? I could list many things you can find in any school that would make a better weapon than a kitchen knife, but that would take up too much space.

Did she have a jack handle in the car? I could mess you up with a jack handle better than I could a butter knife!
Can they bring a ball bat to school? Or for that matter, I'm sure the school owns many. Scissors. A letter opener. The possibilities are endless.

What's more, what was she going to do with that knife, when it was in her car, and she was in the school? And how was it "discovered" in her car? Sounds like some flimsy PC to me.

I cringe at the thought of such stupid people teaching my kid.

[Kaos]

Originally posted by Darkwulfe:
Just one thing bugs me about stories like that. Why the hell does it matter if she was an honor student or not? It makes no sense that because she got good grades she should not be charged with it. I wonder if the story would have even been published if she had not been an honor student.

IMO
They are trying to make a point which is typical media (you know what).
I think the fact that she was a honor student with a academic scholarship says something about her character. This is achieved thru hard work and determination and not usually achieved by the trouble makers.

The zero tolerance policy is a failure if this is a example of it.



[This message has been edited by Kaos (edited 05-24-2001).]

[Metro174]

Almost as bad as the kid who was suspended for drawing a picture of a soldier. I don't think people will start realizing how bad zero tolerance is or what it really is until they start seeing things like this happen. Might make them realize "Hey that could be my kid". And as police, aren't we supposed to have discretion? I think I might have "missed" seeing a steak knife on a floor board. You're right, does seem like flimsy pc to me.

[This message has been edited by Metro174 (edited 05-24-2001).]

[Darkwulfe]

Originally posted by Kaos:
IMO
They are trying to make a point which is typical media (you know what).
I think the fact that she was a honor student with a academic scholarship says something about her character. This is achieved thru hard work and determination and not usually achieved by the trouble makers.

The zero tolerance policy is a failure if this is a example of it.

[This message has been edited by Kaos (edited 05-24-2001).]

The article makes it sound like because she was an honor student they should have been easier on her. In my mind that's wrong. No one deserves special treatment regardless of race, color, creed or even the grades you get in school. I noticed this sort of thing in my home town while I went to highschool and have seen it here allot in my work. Those honor students, so called "good kids" get away with way more then they should because they are looked at as non-trouble makers because of their grades. Everytime somone calls them on any wrong doings, parents scream out about how they are honor students and bad kids don't get good grades. Partly the medias fault, and partly blind parents who can't possibly believe their perfect children could possibly do something wrong.

A recent case here, a 17 years old kid got drunk with his buddy, drove drunk, rolled the car killing his best friend who was a passenger. The kid ran from the accident and hid from police for three days until we found him under the bed at a buddy's house. He never alerted anyone of the acident and never tried to help his friend, left him there to die of his injuries. The papers and media screamed how he did not deserve to go to jail let alone prison because he was a "good kid" and an honor student.

Quote from Article
"Sheriff Lt. Bill Byrus said he sympathizes with Brown, but said the arrest is not up to the discretion of the officer or based on the student's behavior record."

I agree with the sheriff's statement above. When we arrest somone we don't take their grades into consideration. That is all I am saying, who cares that she was an honor student or not. She had a knife in her car, if it's zero tolerance it is zero tolerance regardless who the person is.



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Darkwulfe
[email protected]

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"

[Mitzi]

I'm not for zero tolerance. When we are sending first graders home because he gave another child a lemom drop, something is wrong here.
I live at the beach. They had zero tolerance for drinking, which I do agree with. But one poor tourist knew nothing about it. She got a mixed drink at a small cafe and went to drink it on the beach with her husband. She was arrested, handcuffed and taken to jail. She wasn't drunk or partying, just having one drink with her husband.
We can't keep murderers in jail but we do this kind of stuff to good people.

[ftrphxcop]

I agree Mitzi, Sometimes people can be idiots. This is a bad case of no common sense on the schools part. If they must suspend her for five days at least let her attend her graduation ceremony for gods sake. I just can't believe that a judge won't see the whole picture. And she has to go thru life with the memory of busting her butt for four years for nothing. I think the school needs to get a grip.

[Don]

Zero tolerance = zero discretion on the part of the folks who have to abide by it. What it says is that the administrators don't have enough faith in their teachers to make common sense decisions.

This is often because the administrators themselves have zero common sense.

Unfortunately, if the knife was in plain view on the floorboard, there is NO fourth amendment issue here. If the car was parked in the school parking lot with the knife in plain view on the floor, then apparently they are technically correct in what they did.

Common sense? Of course not! Raw deal for the kid? You bet! But life is not fair. Instead of just being upset and going about our business, maybe it's time we got involved in some of this stuff and worked to try to change it.

Your local school board is elected. They have the power over administrators. I have seen where school boards run roughshod over faculty and students all of my life.

Perhaps it is time we, as voters, sent a message to our school boards that it is time to cut out the bull shi* and get back to educating our kids instead of trying to be "politically correct."

How about getting some parents to run for school boards, folks whose kids are directly affected, instead of having retired old farts who are well connected politically and are in it just for the prestige and in some cases the bucks!

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"Don't teach in German, then test in Japanese!"
6P1 (retired)

[Darkwulfe]

Well said Don! I agree whole-heartedly.

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Darkwulfe
[email protected]

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"

[Glockarmorer]

Sheriff Lt. Bill Byrus said he sympathizes with Brown, but said the arrest is not up to the discretion of the officer or based on the student's behavior record. This young lady made a bad choice," Byrus said.

This is preposterous. These so-called zero tolerance policies are ridiculous and ill conceived. A police lieutenant should understand that officer discretion (like common sense) is a HUGE part of competent police work. Has everyone forgotten the concept of "criminal intent" as an element of committing a crime? Is there any citizen here, including Darkwulfe, who really thinks this girl intentionally committed a crime and should have been jailed? Is there any LEO here who feels that way? The fact that she was an honor student with a clean record IS a factor here. There was no predisposition here. If this was a student with a history of violence and weapons violations, there would be some indication of intent. In this case, there was none! I'm disgusted by this!

G.A.

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No cops, know anarchy.

"He aint finna come all up in my house and act a fool and be gettin away with it cause I will go smooth off." -Movista

[Darkwulfe]

Is there any citizen here, including Darkwulfe, who really thinks this girl intentionally committed a crime and should have been jailed?

I never commented on whether I felt she should have been arrested or not. I am not going to because I do not know all the facts. The article makes it out like because she was an honor student she should not have been treated like that. I was merely stating that if she had not been an honor student no one would have cared whether the kid was arrested or no. Maybe you do things different, but no one I know, myself included, asks a perp what their grades are before arresting them for anything. If the school has zero tolerance it has zero tolerance, it is not up for interpretation and there are no exceptions. That is the way zero tolerance works, it may not be right all the time but that's the way it is.


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Darkwulfe
[email protected]

"Beaten Paths are for Beaten Men"

[Mitzi]

Well, at a high school here in Florida, seniors decided to play a joke on juniors. They took off the license plates of their cars and someone ran and put them on the 50 yard line of the football field. The, with white shoe polish, they wrote "50 yard line" on their cars.
Well, these seniors are not going to walk with their class. The police got involved because the license plates were taken off the cars and some of the shoe polish caused damage to the inside of cars. Apparently, it was a real mess.
The principal is closing his ears to the pleas of the parents. Like Don said, life is not fair and they are not children anymore. They knew better and it wasn't funny to a lot of people.

[This message has been edited by Mitzi (edited 05-25-2001).]