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You can't win


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  • You can't win

    Saw this article regarding a police shooting in Saskatoon Saskatchewan Canada,

    It seems that the guy ran from police in his vehicle, fired "warning shots" at them and then shot the police dog and now his family says it didn't have to happen. You just can't win sometimes.

  • #2
    You are dead right - you can not win.

    Remember that grieving relatives often have a lot to say and usually don't know a lot about the truth of the incident. Also bear in mind the background of hostility to police that usually prevails (and may PRE-EXIST) in these circumstances. Remember that in almost every western country there is a long history of quite justified hostility between indigenous populations and police, and this is certainly the case in Australia.

    A good example of this is the April 2000 shooting in rural Waitara, in New Zealand. Every bleeding heart and civil libertarian from the Prime Minister down said it was racially motivated, while the police were unable to comment sub-judice while the coronial investigation took place. At the end of the day the coronor and two other investigations ruled a maori cop had shot a maori psychiatric patient, in self defence. No one liked it, but there you have it!

    see following- http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0008/S00297.htm http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/sep2000/nz-s07.shtml http://www.police.govt.nz/news/relea...php?shownews=1

    These sites give some background and show that the "court of public opinion" leaves a lot to be desired when determining the true nature of a shooting.

    At the end of the day, no one is going to say "I'm glad the cops shot my son/husband/brother etc. He deserved it".

    Are they?

    Any police shooting is a tragedy, and nobody who wasn't there can second guess what happened or offer armchair opinion. Trust me on this.



    • #3
      Originally posted by unhappycop:

      At the end of the day, no one is going to say "I'm glad the cops shot my son/husband/brother etc. He deserved it".
      Are they?
      Of course you are right about this. But you know, if the parents had raised the kids with a certain amount of respect for the law, this probably would not have happened. If they had raised their
      6P1 (retired)


      • #4
        God I hate being the lone voice of dissension, but the simple fact is these officers did win! All the officers involved are alive and there administration is supporting them.

        Look at it this way, the only person complaining about this shooting is the suspects mother. There are no riots going on in Saskatoon, Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton are not leading any rallies in the streets of Saskatoon calling for the immediate lynching of the officers involved, and the Canadian government is not initiating a civil rights investigation because the dead perp is an indian.

        I dont think we are going to hear anything else about this shooting until the local paper prints a three sentence story on page 10 stating that this was declared a justified shooting.

        I am also betting that the local paper wont print a story covering the funeral of the police K9 that was killed, or a story about the impact this shooting will have on the lives of the officers, who did all they could to avoid this shooting. But thats a whole other thread about the media........

        I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
        Winston Churchill

        [This message has been edited by SpecOpsWarrior (edited 05-23-2001).]


        • #5
          Spec Ops, I enjoyed reading your view on the subject, very informative and enlightening. I did notice that in one local paper the headline read "Saskatoon Police shoot 2nd Native in one month" while another paper had "Police Dog Gunned Down". Makes you wonder if they were talking about the same event.

          [This message has been edited by grum (edited 05-23-2001).]


          • #6
            Some further info on the situation, The Saskatoon StarPhoneix ran this article regarding incident. I thought it was well done.

            Fallen comrade becomes first canine casualty for city police

            Partnership breeds strong bond between dogs, officers: constable
            By Betty Ann Adam
            of The StarPhoenix

            A police dog killed Sunday is believed to be the first to die in the line of duty in Saskatoon.

            Cyr, a five-year-old German shepherd, was shot during a brief armed standoff east of the city. The dog was killed as city police and RCMP tried to arrest a Saskatoon man, Keldon McMillan, who was later shot by police and died at the scene.

            RCMP are investigating the details of the shootings.

            The dog's handler, Const. Steve Kaye, was unavailable for comment Tuesday.

            On Tuesday, Kaye's colleague, Const. Lorne Ingram, visited St. Paul's School with his service dog, Stryker, during one of the regular public relations duties of the canine unit.

            "My dog is my partner, he's my friend, he's part of my family," said Ingram, who prepared his police dog, Stryker, during the same spring training period in 1998 as Kaye trained Cyr.

            "I rely on him completely, trust him and I have to be able to read him and (he has) to be able to read me. We work as a team and the team grows stronger and stronger as we progress through the years we're together. The bond we establish is immense. I consider him one of my family."

            One of purpose of police dogs is to act as the first line of offence in dangerous situations but that doesn't make it any easier for an officer to accept the possible violent death of a canine partner, Ingram said.

            "It is an ever-present danger and at any time during any incident something can go wrong. We try and prepare and train for that," he said.

            Cyr was one of the best all-around dogs in the eight-member canine unit, Ingram said.

            "Well-behaved and even-tempered was probably the best way to describe the dog. He was very, very in control, a very, very stable dog.

            "It's a very sad day for the police department. I don't think I can put it in proper words. It's a bad day."

            Cyr had placed among the top five dogs at the Canadian Police Canine Championships in 1999 and 2000.

            Like all police dogs, Cyr lived with his handler and was essentially a family pet during his off-duty hours. Police dogs accompany their handlers throughout every 12-hour shift.

            They can track four-to-six city blocks, including over hard surfaces, such as pavement or gravel, and can draw attention to human-related items on the trail, including things as small as pennies or paper clips, which may be used as evidence.

            During their four-month initial training, they also learn to find lost people and assist in arrests.

            Ingram said he doesn't know of any legislation penalizing people who injure or kill police service dogs.

            "I would love to see that changed," he said. "I think there should be something. These animals give their lives to do the same job in accordance with us as a partner. I don't see why they shouldn't be afforded the same safeguards and penalties for people who injure them."

            A memorial service is being planned for the dog, but no details were available Tuesday.



            • #7
              Originally posted by grum:
              Spec Ops, I enjoyed reading your view on the subject, very informative and enlightening.
              Thanks Grum, I really appreciate that.

              Well in my first post I said that I didnt think the media would run a story on the K9 that was killed in the line of duty. I was wrong, and after reading the article you posted, I am glad I was wrong.

              I hate to sound cold and uncaring here, but I honestly feel more remorse for Constable Steven Kaye and his family over the loss of Cyr, than I feel for the family of Keldon McMillian, I am sorry McMillian died, but he did it to himself.

              Thanks for keeping us updated Grum, keep up the good work.

              I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
              Winston Churchill


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