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What duty sidearm for the London police?

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  • What duty sidearm for the London police?

    Hello ladies and gentlemen.

    I am a serving officer in London's Metropolitan Police. Yes, I appreciate that this is not the firearms forum. Nevertheless, since more people seem to operate on this forum, I thought I'd post the topic here.

    We do have officers in the Met who carry firearms but, unfortunately, they amount to about 5% of the force. Here's the scenario. Tony Blair and his little helpers have a sudden change of heart and decide, forthwith to have all police officers armed. You're the procurements chief. We all have to carry the same pistol. It has to be 9mm. What are you getting us?

    By the way, those officers who are authorised to carry guns, carry the Glock 17 and/or the H&K MP5. A few even get to brandish a H&K G36 from time to time.

  • #2
    Originally posted by banastretarlton
    You're the procurements chief. We all have to carry the same pistol. It has to be 9mm. What are you getting us?


    Probably Glock 17 pistols with night sights for all of you.

    For me, sitting in my office on my arse, I'm getting a Glock 19 as I'm fat, lazy and don't want to carry the extra 2 ounces of slide & frame.

    Comment


    • #3
      I carry a Glock23. .40cal, but they do make a 9mm version. It's short barreled for quick drawing from the holster & easy to conceal so as not to intimidate the liberals. That's what I was issued. If I had my choice I'd go with an H&K. they seem more robust & I'm told a bit more accurate.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by hemicop
        I carry a Glock23. .40cal, but they do make a 9mm version. It's short barreled for quick drawing from the holster & easy to conceal so as not to intimidate the liberals.
        Yeah...the glock 19.

        That's what I have, but its cause I'm lazy and don't want that extra 12mm or length on the slide.

        I'm fragile and can't carry the weight...or something...

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        • #5
          A Glock is an excellent choice.

          Reliable, accurate, and easy to use.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would also recommend the Glock. If that does not work for you try the Glock or the Glock. All are very good firearms.
            Fear not the armed citizen but rather the government that tries to disarm him.

            Comment


            • #7
              I can't say I have any experience with guns. I've done a bit of research on them. I suppose I'm a wannabe gunowner and a full supporter of the American Second Amendment.

              There's something about Glocks that's oh-so-boring. I know they've got a great reputation for reliability and ease of use - the safe action trigger mechanism was a sweet little invention - but they lack charisma. Surely there is a sidearm out there that matches Glock's renowned reliability and ease of use, yet also exudes a certain charm.

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              • #8
                ok what about this gun?



                if you cant get a GREAT GUN like glock than get that USP 9mm retail $769.00 US 15rnds mag
                sigpicMy statements do not represent my agency.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by banastretarlton

                  There's something about Glocks that's oh-so-boring. I know they've got a great reputation for reliability and ease of use - .

                  what ?????????? just remember the glock is the ak47 of handguns
                  sigpicMy statements do not represent my agency.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by banastretarlton
                    I can't say I have any experience with guns. I've done a bit of research on them. I suppose I'm a wannabe gunowner and a full supporter of the American Second Amendment.

                    There's something about Glocks that's oh-so-boring. I know they've got a great reputation for reliability and ease of use - the safe action trigger mechanism was a sweet little invention - but they lack charisma. Surely there is a sidearm out there that matches Glock's renowned reliability and ease of use, yet also exudes a certain charm.
                    If you want something stylish and with charm, I suggest you order a Beretta from Italy and have them include a pair of women dressed in mini-skirts, leather and handcuffs with the gun. I hear its only about $200 extra for each woman if you order from the Beretta factory...

                    But I like Glock, so I wouldn't know.

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                    • #11
                      I used to carry a Glock, and while it was functional and easy to use, I was issued a Beretta 96 that I prefer over the Glock. I'm more accurate with it, and it feels like a real gun. (That's sure to inspire the wrath of the "Kool-Aid Glock" folks!)
                      Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice. Barry Goldwater

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                      • #12
                        bana

                        You might as well ask what phaser we should carry. Ain't happening.

                        That said, my lot (the force immediately to the North of you) had a stockpile of Lee Enfield rifles for issue in the event of nuclear warfare. And I suggest that's the only time we're going to be issued firearms. Our lot carry Sig Sauers incidentally.
                        I'm a little bit waayy, a little bit wooah, a little bit woosh, I'm a geezer.

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                        • #13
                          Well, I think realistically since the armed officers already have the Glock 17, that is probably what would be selected.

                          However, I think that if it were up to me, I'd probably look for a couple of different weapons and then let the officers select from a list of approved pistols. Finding one gun that fits everyone is impossible.

                          Still, if forced to pick, I'd seriously look at the Beretta PX4. It has different sized backstraps so it can be adjusted to different hand sizes, it is lighweight, and it holds 17+1 rounds. I would go with either the G model which is a decocker without a safety or the C model which is a slickslide with a somewhat lighter DA trigger pull than a true DAO pistol. I would also equip each cruiser with a Beretta CX4 Storm carbine which uses the same magazines as the pistol.

                          Now, if I could make my list of approved firearms, I'd include:

                          Beretta 90-Two
                          Beretta PX4
                          Glock 17
                          Glock 19
                          HK P2000
                          S&W M&P
                          S&W 3913 TSW

                          There should be something there that fits everyone and works for either uniformed patrol or plain clothes.

                          Quite frankly, I find the idea of doing police work without a firearm very strange. I watched a show about body armor on A&E a while back and it included a segment on London Police and the stab vests they wear. It seems to me that if one is in such danger of being stabbed that one needs to wear a stab vest, then one also needs a firearm. I would never try to do law enforcement in the US without a gun or three, but maybe things are different in the UK.
                          -Landric

                          "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them"-Felix

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cockney Corner.
                            bana

                            You might as well ask what phaser we should carry. Ain't happening.

                            That said, my lot (the force immediately to the North of you) had a stockpile of Lee Enfield rifles for issue in the event of nuclear warfare. And I suggest that's the only time we're going to be issued firearms. Our lot carry Sig Sauers incidentally.
                            I hear you, CC. My shoulders are slumped and I feel pretty dejected. To my American colleagues, Cockney is right.

                            The British old-timers might try to con you guys into thinking that we Brits held out on our own against the German menace for two years, through sheer pluck and resilience.

                            Possibly. I, for one, think it had more to do with we Brits being bl**dy ignorant and refusing to accept change. As one wiseacre put it, the Germans thought that they were going to beat us. We knew that we would beat them. On that occasion ignorance worked for us.

                            The trouble is, that we have applied that pig-headed refusal to engage with reality to the question of universally arming the police in the UK.

                            Can someone please explain to me the logic of senior management providing all of its officers with bullet proof vests and then suggesting that we have not reached the stage where officers need to be routinely armed with firearms? 'We accept that there is a likelihood that you will be shot at, but we refuse to provide you with the means to defend yourselves.'

                            I tell you, this makes me soooo f***ing angry. The fact that we need to have a certain number of police officers shot/ stabbed and seriously injured or killed before anything happens is insane. Because, considering we already have officers routinely shot at and injured/killed, what is a satisfactory number for something to change?

                            I work in a rough area of London, of which, nowadays, there are many. Every single day, our briefings are littered with firearm-related incidents, including unarmed response officers conducting 'routine' stops on bandit vehicles, only to find Mac 10 machine pistols in the boot. Or at an address, or wherever. One bad guy was stopped by an unarmed officer and a Mac 10 fell from his waistband! Yes, the Mac 10s are the flavour among BGs here.

                            A man in Dartford, Kent, near London, was recently arrested after police found 900 guns in his home. It is believed that he has been selling weapons to gangs in London. God knows how many guns this man has managed to sell illegally to criminals. And my government and people expect me to defend myself and them with cs spray and an ASP. Madness.

                            Thanks for your patience.
                            Last edited by banastretarlton; 09-25-2006, 01:48 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Landric
                              I watched a show about body armor on A&E a while back and it included a segment on London Police and the stab vests they wear. It seems to me that if one is in such danger of being stabbed that one needs to wear a stab vest, then one also needs a firearm. I would never try to do law enforcement in the US without a gun or three, but maybe things are different in the UK.
                              Landric, we call them stab vests for a reason. That reason is political. Yes, they are supposedly stab proof. But they are also bullet proof. Well, proof against 9mm bullets at ten metres, anyway. So, why do we call them stab proof vests and not bulletproof vests (which is what I call them)?

                              Because, unlike you Americans, who realised long ago that those people who take their personal protection seriously take a gun to a knife fight AS WELL AS a gun fight, large swathes of us in the UK imagine that their is something intrinsically unsporting about that and, well, un-British.

                              Hence the term 'stab vest' and not bulletproof vest. Because we don't want to face the fact that gun crime in our country has exploded. Incidentally, it rose dramatically around about the time when our government decided to take gun ownership - and effective self defence - away from law-abiding citizens.

                              I apologise if I seem sour. Our society is simply geared towards patting the injured policeman on the back for braving the knife wielding/ gun toting BG, unarmed, and criticizing the armed policeman for neutralizing the threat.
                              Last edited by banastretarlton; 09-25-2006, 01:50 PM.

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