Getting rid of Small town PDs and Expanding..

[equinox137]

Originally Posted by MiraiPO in the Ask a Cop forum

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So today in my police science class we were comparing Britain's PD with the system here in the US. We were talking about how England has only 5 police departments that cover England in its entirety and how the US still uses small town police departments that cover well, small towns! Anyhow I was thinking and it hit me.... I think we should adapt Englands Model and get rid of all these small town police departments with their small jurisdictional boundaries and make every cop in a given state a state trooper...

Think about it, if every cop in a state was a trooper you wouldnt have to worry about cops leaving for better paying departments cause there would only be one agency and the salary would be the same statewide, also they would have police power all over that state so no more backing off of pursuits just because a perp crosses a border line between two towns... Recruitment problems would also be solved.

Overall I think this would increase the effectiveness of the police because everything would be linked, and communication would be much stronger, funding would also be simpler because it would go straight to one agency.

So my question to you guys is how do you feel about this? Do you think that our current Policing system would become more efficient if we dropped the small town departments and made one agency statewide which would be the state police.

p.s. no silly answers like "I dont wanna wear those goofy hats"...

[equinox137]

I don't really think its about how big/small your department is.
In the UK we recently looked at smaller forces combining but it was alll too difficult and no-one wanted to pay.
It really doesn't matter, all the public want is a police officer to turn up when they call and all a police officer wants is a police officer to be there when they call!
What is required is the ability to access information on a national and now international basis. On this day in particular we need to remember its a different world.

In Europe, it might be a different world, but in the US - it's pretty much buisness as usual. The public wamts a police officer to turn up for the call, but you'd be really surpised how irritiated people get when they deal with a PO they don't think has jurisdiction in that area. Look in the traffic forums if you want to see what I mean...

[S.O.444]

Seems like if we modeled their system, it would leave many small towns with far less coverage IMO.


Besides, the Brits don't deal with the same amount of crime as LEOs here in the states. Over there, if a bobby finds a roach, he's met his year's quota.

[equinox137]

Seems like if we modeled their system, it would leave many small towns with far less coverage IMO.


Besides, the Brits don't deal with the same amount of crime as LEOs here in the states. Over there, if a bobby finds a roach, he's met his year's quota.

Nor do they deal with the same amount of populace or territory.

[CelticCop]

On top of all that the response times of the European Police is abysmal. A call goes out and it could be anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour and a half.

[lawhog]

On top of all that the response times of the European Police is abysmal. A call goes out and it could be anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour and a half.

That really is not that far off here in Michigan. Understaffed everywhere in the state right now with all the budget cuts. People are waiting 4-8 hours in someplaces here becuase of heavy call loads and too few officers, while adminstrators admonish the officers for not responding faster. The guys here are in a no win situation.

[motorwaycop]

Seems like if we modeled their system, it would leave many small towns with far less coverage IMO.


Besides, the Brits don't deal with the same amount of crime as LEOs here in the states. Over there, if a bobby finds a roach, he's met his year's quota.

Sorry but I can't resist.
England is not the green and pleasant land you may think it is.
I was fortunate to ride along with a trooper whilst on holiday in the US. When we talked we found that our working day was strikingly similar.
I am pretty sure that would apply to an offficer working in an urban area as well.
Frankly your image of what a UK police officer does appears to be somewhat influenced by images from the 1960's.

[Staubb00]

I think it has to do with our system of government. everything is so disjointed and separate over here due to how our governmental system was set up. We don't have one national police force like some countries do not just because of the sheer size of the country, but because you want to keep governmental power at a minimum, and that means breaking it down into jurisdictions that have local power. I like small town PDs because it's pretty much community policing by the book. unfortunately it's a nightmare for the upper ranks when it comes to communication and radio frequencies (think NIMBS). and as far as hiring goes it would be nice to take one POST exam and not have to mess around going from city to city

[TX Heat]

I don't think that would go over well here. Americans like local control. Schools, police, etc. are near and dear to the hearts of people and they want local values represented and want some local control of those.
If they're mad at the police, or if they love them, they have a mayor, county administrator, local chief of police, city councilman...someone they can air a gripe to.
It's hard to call and gripe to the chief if he's 240 miles away in the capitol. Bigger cities may would go with it, but doubtful. Smaller towns would flat out scream if you took their local control away.
It would smell of "big brother" and big government to many.

[chaser266]

The problem is that smaller jurisdictions want to have their own police. If the town already has coverage by a large county force, the town people tend to complain that there's not enough police presence in town by the county guys. That, combined with traffic citation revenue in some cases, is why there are small town agencies.

Also, as mentioned previously, we do not want to give too much power to a centralized government. Think about how (in)efficient the federal government has been at times (i.e. Katrina, immigration) and ask yourself if you truly want to further remove the police from the citizens.

[ChrisF202]

Well heres my take:

My county is split in half; the suburban western half is patrolled by the County Police and the rural eastern half is patrolled by small town and village police forces with the Sheriff's Office providing special assistance. Response time in the Western half is 45 minutes on average compared to 3.5 minutes in the Eastern half. Patrol coverage is nonexistant, I have yet to see a single cop this month yet in the rural east I see cops everywhere.

Result: stay with the small town PDs, they might be smaller and have less specialized units but they in turn have a better patrol coverage due to more officers on patrol in that particular community then the county would provide (because they cover a smaller area). Besides, the county sheriff can always provide the specialized units and handle major investigations when required.

Heres an example from my area, both communities are similar in size, crime and population: Community A has its own police department with 25 full time officers, they have 4 officers and 1 sergeant per shift. Community B is patrolled by the County Police and has only 2 officers per shift ... sometimes 1 and sometimes none depending on leaves, vacation, need to help in the next community over (also patrolled by County PD), etc etc.

[Cockney Corner.]

Seems like if we modeled their system, it would leave many small towns with far less coverage IMO.


Besides, the Brits don't deal with the same amount of crime as LEOs here in the states. Over there, if a bobby finds a roach, he's met his year's quota.

Well, the crime rate in the UK for most offences, including violent crime, is about the same as that in the US. The only difference is that the US murder rate is much higher. But I'm sure that as a security guard (sorry, commissioned security officer) you're doing your bit to keep the people of Texas, or their offices and malls anyway, safe.

[Cockney Corner.]

On top of all that the response times of the European Police is abysmal. A call goes out and it could be anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour and a half.

Sounds like there's a story behind that comment. Care to share? Was it Britain or somewhere else in Europe?

[msptrooper]

...and make every cop in a given state a state trooper...

Think about it, if every cop in a state was a trooper

You can't be promoted to a Trooper, you earn that title!

[D.o.D cop]

It's funny that this thread so be brought up on a couple of reasons for me. First, I am going through the hiring process of a local police departmen now, and yes, it's a "small" city. That's what i wanted, to start of small, to get my feet wet, an see how it is, and hopefully get some better training in a smaller department due to availability of shift supervisors and fellow expeirienced officers.

Also, a local town is thinking of doing away with there PD, and this would be a disaster, seeing as how it is one of the busiest PD's in the county. On the same note, there are to area's in that county that don't have a local PD, and have contracted out with the SO for LE.

On one side, it's a low crime area, response times are horrible, so it's a good thing that a low crime area, and on a positive side for myself, I can speed through there like crazy without fear of a SO being there. It's very rare to see one, and when you do, it's for a couple of reasons: either that deputy is going home, going to or from a call, and is generally bored, and needs to raise productivity.

The other town that has contracted out with the SO, well, it's so-so, and they are considering making there own PD, just for more increased partols, and being a tourist town, they need it.

So I for one vote to keep local and small town PD's. Plus, how do you think NYC and LA would be if they didin't have a PD?