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Okay, Another "What Would You Do?" Question...

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  • Okay, Another "What Would You Do?" Question...

    I was just watching one of those "deadly situations caught on tape" type shows on TV and there was a pretty sticky hostage crisis going on.

    A disgruntled ex-employee went back to his old place of work for revenge. After shooting his boss in the leg with a sawed off semi-auto 12 guage, he duct taped the barrel to the back of a guys head, and then taped his hand to the trigger.

    The negotiating went on for a long time. The man was demanding that 20,000 dollars in small bills be thrown into the air in his neighborhood. He was tweaked. Eventually, the guy snapped and said that he is going to count down from 60 and shoot the hostage.

    He started the count and at 13 the hostage decided to do something. He spun hard to the right and tried to take the gun. It went off, missing the hostages head. The two men struggled for control of the weapon. Well, lucky for the hostage, one of the snipers got a clear shot and took it, hitting the gunman in the head. After the hostage realized what was going on, he dropped to the ground. The snipers proceeded to shoot the gunman about 6 more times.

    First off, I have to say that snipers are friggin' awesome!

    Second, my question is: What if the hostage did not react and the gunman kept counting down past 13? Would you shoot and hope that the gunmans weapon wouldn't discharge? At what number would you shoot? 2? 1?

    I don't know what procedure is for a situation like that, but that must be a difficult decision. Thanks in advance for your input!

  • #2
    IMHO this is an impossible question to answer. You would actually have to be there and see exactly what was going on.

    ------------------
    All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.
    6P1 (retired)
    6P1 (retired)

    Comment


    • #3
      Actually, I believe the schoolbook solution is to take the shot if you have it. The schoolbook solution (and I speak as a recipient of a couple of hostage/barricaded gunman seminars, NOT as a fully trained SWAT person or hostage negotiator) accepts that hostages may lose their lives at times.

      I am assuming that the information you have given is about the same information that the person with authority to call the shots has.

      In posing my answer, I am at the same time curious as to what you experts may say.

      BUT being who I am, I would probably be too chicken to give the fire command and then blame myself when the bad guy pulls the trigger. A lose/lose situation all the way around.

      Chris

      Hostage situations are heck.

      Comment


      • #4
        It is said that if you shoot the suspect through a certain spot in the head (I beleive through the nose cavity) it will instantly kill a person rendering all body parts inactive.

        These particular types of situations are far and few between, at least in canada anyways.
        As the snow started to fall, he pulled his coat tighter around himself. Too tight, as it turned out. "This is the fourth coat crushing this year," said the police sergeant as he outlined the body with a special pencil that writes in the snow.

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        • #5
          I've been in those kind of deals as both perimeter officer, negotiator and sniper. There is no solid answer, you have to be there to "feel" the situation. Theoretically, taking out the medula with a dead center perfect hit will freeze the body, but that's a huge bet. Better to blow the brain out on the floor when gun barrel is not pointed at hostage.

          ------------------
          "Remember. It's only a movie." Alfred Hitchcock.
          "Remember. It's only a movie." Alfred Hitchcock.

          Comment


          • #6
            The right thing to do, if a sniper had a shot to take the perp out instantly they should shoot before he gets to 1. Fat chance of any supervisor ie Capt or above having the balls to do that.

            Comment


            • #7
              RT,
              I disagree with your hypothesis that a Capt. or above would not have the balls. I think you are wrong, at least as it would apply to my old department.

              Retired
              Retired

              Comment


              • #8
                Sniper gets the green light and tales the shot when he gets it after the countdown.

                ------------------
                -Sparky
                -Sparky

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe they would have in the past, maybe there are a few who would now. But if they want to have a future in the department they need to follow the company line.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Retired,

                    I doubt that RT ever met your (unfortunately) ex chief. He may not have had much of a way with words, be certainly had the gonads!!

                    ------------------
                    All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.
                    6P1 (retired)
                    6P1 (retired)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Rt,
                      I would agree that you will find administrators in all occupations that leave something to be desired. Gutless wonders are not restricted to just LE.

                      I guess I was fortunate in that many of the administrators that I worked with, I also worked a radio car with. Sure there were a couple that, as you said, had no guts, but for the most part, they were all good guys, who stood behind the troops. I would even like to think that I never lost my gonads as I promoted.

                      Regards,

                      Retired
                      Retired

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RT:
                        The right thing to do, if a sniper had a shot to take the perp out instantly they should shoot before he gets to 1. Fat chance of any supervisor ie Capt or above having the balls to do that.
                        Right!! Like I said at my post.

                        BTW, the last time I checked I didn't have a pair.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Buddingnovelist:
                          BTW, the last time I checked I didn't have a pair.

                          Chris,

                          You can "have them" without having them. I know lots of women who "have them" and lots of men who don't...if ya follow my meaning!

                          G.A.



                          ------------------
                          No cops, know anarchy.

                          "He aint finna come all up in my house and act a fool and be gettin away with it cause I will go smooth off." -Movista
                          No cops, know anarchy.

                          "He aint finna come all up in my house and act a fool and be gettin away with it cause I will go smooth off." -Movista

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The 'instantly incapacitating' shot is called a 'brain stem' shot. It is found, from the front, by making an imaginary triangle from the eyes and tip of the nose. A shot into the brain stem is like shutting off a light switch. No involuntary muscle twitches, etc. Nada...lights out.

                            ------------------
                            HEARTS and MINDS
                            "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
                            -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Would love a link to an article or report about this.

                              Comment

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