Time Travelling Dilemma

[CinaC]

I can't recall the name of the movie -- Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen were in it. A modern day aircraft carrier is sucked back in time to Dec 1941, and Douglas' character (the aircraft carrier captain) realizes he has an opportunity to destroy the Japanese fleet and blow their planes out of the sky.

This doesn't wind up happening -- the "time vortex" swoops back and takes them back to the present. But if you were in the same position, what would you do, and what would be the possible repurcussions of your act?

A sneak attack on Pearl Harbor guaranteed American entry into World War II. What would happen if you gave an order that changed all of that?

[RachelR]

I'd have to ponder this question before answering.. but I believe the movie was The Final Countdown.

[ateamer]

Wasn't that "The Final Countdown"? Hard to say what would have happened. It might have stopped Japan's aggression. It might have only delayed the war in the Pacific. If we had not engaged Japan, the war in Europe might have been much shorter, due to us having more resources available. OTOH, if we were only fighting on one front, war production probably would have been vastly less, especially since the European front would probably not have been perceived so much a fight for the nation's survival as was the war with Japan. In this scenario, the war with Germany may have been viewed as simply assistance to Britain and France and given the losses of WWI, we might have committed a lot fewer assets.

Time travel presents some interesting dillemas. However, if I could travel back in time and make one change, I'd off the guy who invented popup ads!

[Niteshift]

I have to go with the Captains decision in the movie. His job is to defend the US against attack. Period. It's not his job to explore the possible historic implications of doing it.

It might sound mindless, but that is what the Navy is for.

[Bill R]

quote:

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But if you were in the same position, what would you do, and what would be the possible repurcussions of your act?

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I would blast the Japanese fleet. I could not sit by and watch America be attacked if I had the means to stop it. Hard to say about repercussions. Sinking the Japanese fleet would likely have had a major impact on Japanese agression. It could have also had a major political effect in Japan. I think Roosevelt would have managed to get us into the war (at least against Germany/Italy)without a direct attack.

[huff317]

Wow, we need a separate forum titled "UFO's, alien abductions, and time travel issues"...........No,
I'm SERIOUS.

I know the I have seen some weird things, and I reckon a whole passle of y'all have, too.

How about it?

Out

[ 01-02-2003, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: huff317 ]

[Sparky]

.. this is otherwise known as the "Grandmother Paradox" refereing to the paradox created when you go back in time and caused the death of your grandmother. This would mean that you wouldn't be born in order to go go back and cause her death, which means you would be born... and on and on...

The Chronology Protection Conjecture (CPC) would prevent this. The CPC basically means that there are laws of nature which would not allow you to change anything like that.

This, logically, calls in to question the issue of free will. If we can't change the past, then we don't choose our own destiny.

But not really... the best example I have heard on this is that we may will ourselves to walk on the ceiling... but we can't because of the laws of gravity.

Same thing... you can't go back and change what has already happend because the Chronology Protection Conjecture would kick in and prevent it.

[huff317]

See??

See what I mean? Although brilliantly articulated by Sparky (great job, dude!)
I have no earthly idea WHAT he just said!

Out

[SGT Dave]

It WAS The Final Countdown.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0080736

And I LOVED that movie! It really was a GREAT plot. And I too agree with Captain Yelland's (Kirk Douglas) call-to report to the President of The United States as to their existance, capabilities and readiness to defend America.

True believers in the time continuum would not expect to change the events, but I'm sure the Captain was wondering what HIS destiny was to be or what he was meant to stop by being there, since if it was a true "time continuum" then that means he would have considered having to have been there in HIS dimension in 1941 also. Hard to follow?

Dang right!

And oh, but what a testicle swelling scene that was when the two Zeros were strafing that pleasure yacht and the two F-14s (?) got the green light to take them out!

MAN!!!!!! I jumped from my seat when the Tomcats made that first slightly subsonic low altitude p ***!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lone ranger]

Schrodinger's cat and other quantum furballs.

Some of the more recent theories discount the old "Grandmother Paradox," stating instead that by going back in time and killing your grandparents, you do not alter you own future. You are creating another parallel universe and your own remains unchanged.

I tend to believe that time is like a river. You may travel back in time and do something to cause the river to overflow at a certain point. But it will seek to return to it's natural state.

So going back to the movie... If the Captain had been able to remain in 1941 and succeed in preempting the attack on Pearl Harbor.

1. There would have been no need for the Manhattan Project and therefore no Nuke Aircraft Carrier. Therefore they would not have existed to go through the wormhole in order to go back and change time. (Grandfather Paradox)

2. The US would not have felt the urgent need to get involved in WWII. Giving the Germans a big head start on their "V" and atomic programs.
Germany would have been the first nuclear power. We still would have been drawn into it but the German scientists would have had a few months of relative quiet to progress with their programs.

hmmmmmm. Time travel is starting to give me a headache. I'm going to take two asprin and call my doctor yesterday morning.

[ 01-03-2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: lone ranger ]

[txinvestigator1]

quote:

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There would have been no need for the Manhattan Project and therefore no Nuke Aircraft Carrier. Therefore they would not have existed to go through the wormhole in order to go back and change time. (Grandfather Paradox)

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OK, but at that moment there already WAS a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, with the technology on board and engineers. Maybe no need to develope a Nuc for Japan, but surely that source of energy would have been exploited.

Hmmmmm

BTW, a Great movie

[Mike Tx]

The good thing about traveling to the past is that you can take whatever risk you want to without worrying. If you get killed, you'll be born again.

[CinaC]

Yeah, born again to go back into time and die again!

Y'know, I really love the Back to the Future movies. Y'know (yeah, I was really bored...) ... the DeLorean existed in three different areas in 1955?

There was the Delorean Marty took back in '55 in the first film. Then, there's the Delorean (this time modified with flying wheels et al) that Doc and Marty took back in the sequel to snag the Sports Almanac away from Biff. Then there's the same Delorean buried in an abandoned mine shaft in 1885 after Doc gets thrown back there due to a lightning strike in the third film.

Geez. That's a lot of places for the same car to be in at the same time.

[Sparky]

I believe that the "infinte number of parrellel universes" theory is flawed.

For there to be an infinite number of univeres, there would have to be an infinite amount of energy available for their creation.

Infinite numbers of universes cannot exist because the amount of energy which exists in the universe is finite.

[ 01-04-2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Sparky ]

[CinaC]

Why would it have to be any more difficult then, say, a cell reproducing? If you imagine the "universe" as a human body, and each cell as an alternate reality?