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  • pursuit policies

    Hey all, just curious what you all think of the pursue vs non-pursue policies. I get frustrated at times when the bad guy gets away and wonder why we terminate the pursuit (I know the theory 'its not worth it unless its a felony to risk others') but at the same time it does seem to make sense to terminate if it's only a minor crime to begin with.

    I'm still on the fence as to how I feel about the issue.

    Thoughts?
    For those who want to argue religion, my views are in the sig. This avoids days of repetition and is convenient. Thanks and good luck in your quest.

    Answering Infidels
    Faith issues
    Challenging hardcore atheism
    Reasonable Faith

  • #2
    First of all, this topic has been covered extensively on this forum. Do a search and you will be reading for days.

    My department has a "no pursuit" policy and I cant stand it. People don't run because they are afraid of a $100 speeding ticket. They flee for other reasons which usually lead to felony arrests. Up in my parts, the BG's now know that if they run, there is nothing we can do about it. And you better believe it's starting to become a huge problem, especially with our gangs. They have nothing to lose by fleeing. As soon as I pull a u-turn on them off they go.

    However, I also don't agree with pursuit policies where you just follow the vehicle for miles and miles and miles until he either runs out of gas or hits something. That ****es me off even more then the no pursuit policy. I believe that if the vehicle is clearly trying to outrun the police, you PIT that mother f**ker as soon as you get the chance to safely do so without injuring any innocent people. Either get some spikes out on the road immediately (within the first minute) or PIT his ***. If he wraps around a tree, too freakin bad. Don't run from the cops. But to wait until the BG runs into an innocent family is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

    Now if I can only get the liberals to come around.
    It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses....Hit it!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by RabbitMPD
      First of all, this topic has been covered extensively on this forum. Do a search and you will be reading for days.
      I didn't feel like digging up an old thread but rather starting an old topic fresh. Going by what you're suggesting, there would rarely be any new threads eventually because LE topics will run dry like any other topic. And not to be rude, but if you don't want to join in and leave it to those of us who would like to talk about it in a new thread, that's always an option. Again, not trying to be greasy with you but I get sick of people reminding new members of any forum that, 'Oh we've already covered it dummy, use the search'.

      Onto the content.

      Originally posted by RabbitMPD
      My department has a "no pursuit" policy and I cant stand it. People don't run because they are afraid of a $100 speeding ticket. They flee for other reasons which usually lead to felony arrests. Up in my parts, the BG's now know that if they run, there is nothing we can do about it. And you better believe it's starting to become a huge problem, especially with our gangs. They have nothing to lose by fleeing. As soon as I pull a u-turn on them off they go.
      Yes, we've got one also and like I said, it's pretty frustrating. I had thought the same thing as you about the people not running due to a speeding ticket, but then I happened to catch a special on last night (Hot Pursuit) and it mentioned that only 10% of those who flee actually have a serious crime worth chasing while the remaining 90% run for stupid reasons. I realize stats aren't perfect but holy crap.....lets assume 10% was wrong and the number is double that....only 20% then? Still, in my book how can you tell if the guy you're behind is part of the (adjusted) 20%, or is he/she the 80 who isn't worth chasing (according to the 'experts')?

      I'd feel better about non-pursuit policies if we had a chopper. Letting them get away with the possibility of a stolen vehicle or worse, just a switched tag sucks.

      Originally posted by RabbitMPD
      However, I also don't agree with pursuit policies where you just follow the vehicle for miles and miles and miles until he either runs out of gas or hits something. That ****es me off even more then the no pursuit policy. I believe that if the vehicle is clearly trying to outrun the police, you PIT that mother f**ker as soon as you get the chance to safely do so without injuring any innocent people. Either get some spikes out on the road immediately (within the first minute) or PIT his ***. If he wraps around a tree, too freakin bad. Don't run from the cops. But to wait until the BG runs into an innocent family is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
      Yea, I'm thinking of a certain white Bronco years ago and me practically screaming at the television 'PIT'm! PIT'm!'. That was the dumbest pursuit I've ever seen. But yea, I agree with you overall I think. Still, those stats bothered me last night. Saw another show on Court TV (The Investigators) about pursuits a few months back and it was the same debate. But here was the rub for me (and why I hate no-pursuit policies): One cop told the story of how he let a vehicle go due to their no pursue policy and it turned out they'd just snatched a girl and tossed her in the trunk. They terminated the pursuit and sure enough she ended up dead.

      Originally posted by RabbitMPD
      Now if I can only get the liberals to come around.
      lol...if I can be of help let me know!
      For those who want to argue religion, my views are in the sig. This avoids days of repetition and is convenient. Thanks and good luck in your quest.

      Answering Infidels
      Faith issues
      Challenging hardcore atheism
      Reasonable Faith

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you even a LEO? If not, why even care one way or another. Chill out! Seems to me that you are getting all worked up by watching too many "cop shows" on tv.

        Rabbit was right on with this topic being discussed...it's not that hard to dig up a 2 day old thread! If you feel strongly in regards to this issue, join in on the other threads, if not, let it go!
        "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RabbitMPD
          First of all, this topic has been covered extensively on this forum. Do a search and you will be reading for days.

          My department has a "no pursuit" policy and I cant stand it. People don't run because they are afraid of a $100 speeding ticket. They flee for other reasons which usually lead to felony arrests. Up in my parts, the BG's now know that if they run, there is nothing we can do about it. And you better believe it's starting to become a huge problem, especially with our gangs. They have nothing to lose by fleeing. As soon as I pull a u-turn on them off they go.

          However, I also don't agree with pursuit policies where you just follow the vehicle for miles and miles and miles until he either runs out of gas or hits something. That ****es me off even more then the no pursuit policy. I believe that if the vehicle is clearly trying to outrun the police, you PIT that mother f**ker as soon as you get the chance to safely do so without injuring any innocent people. Either get some spikes out on the road immediately (within the first minute) or PIT his ***. If he wraps around a tree, too freakin bad. Don't run from the cops. But to wait until the BG runs into an innocent family is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

          Now if I can only get the liberals to come around.



          Couldnt agree iwht you more.How bout this,a department beings a policy that gives you 3 minutes to either deploy a spike strip or PIT safely,if you dont the pursuit automaticly ends.

          Comment


          • #6
            accidental double post,sorry.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mcsexplorer
              Couldnt agree iwht you more.How bout this,a department beings a policy that gives you 3 minutes to either deploy a spike strip or PIT safely,if you dont the pursuit automaticly ends.
              Are you kidding me?
              "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

              Comment


              • #8
                LOL I once asked a captain about the pursuit policy.... he looked at me without a flinch and said...

                "well....chase em til you only have half a tank of gas left then turn around and come back"




                (I like this guy)
                An impressionable child in a tumultuous world, and they say I'm at a difficult stage... --Meat Loaf

                Professional Stupidity Recognition Technician

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by irishlad2nv
                  Are you even a LEO? If not, why even care one way or another. Chill out! Seems to me that you are getting all worked up by watching too many "cop shows" on tv.

                  Rabbit was right on with this topic being discussed...it's not that hard to dig up a 2 day old thread! If you feel strongly in regards to this issue, join in on the other threads, if not, let it go!
                  Thanks for the in depth reply.

                  No, I'm not an LEO, does that disqualify me from having an opinion? 'Chill out'....? I wasn't exactly sitting here with a box of Kleenex in my lap while typing.
                  For those who want to argue religion, my views are in the sig. This avoids days of repetition and is convenient. Thanks and good luck in your quest.

                  Answering Infidels
                  Faith issues
                  Challenging hardcore atheism
                  Reasonable Faith

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't think anyone can understand any pursuit policy until you've been in the field to realize it's not all it's cut out to be. Especially don't go by the media and what you see on TV. My dept has a very strict policy. Only aggravated felonies that are an immediate risk to public safety condone a pursuit in my dept. I believe for good reason.

                    I say the best way to keep a pursuit safe (if there is such a thing as a safe pursuit) is keep it airborne. No vehicle is going to hide or outrun a chopper.

                    I believe in pursuits in extreme cases, but the less I can put the public at risk, the better. I'm not going to risk lives over a traffic violation or even a stolen vehicle.
                    I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SgtScott31
                      I don't think anyone can understand any pursuit policy until you've been in the field to realize it's not all it's cut out to be. Especially don't go by the media and what you see on TV. My dept has a very strict policy. Only aggravated felonies that are an immediate risk to public safety condone a pursuit in my dept. I believe for good reason.

                      I say the best way to keep a pursuit safe (if there is such a thing as a safe pursuit) is keep it airborne. No vehicle is going to hide or outrun a chopper.

                      I believe in pursuits in extreme cases, but the less I can put the public at risk, the better. I'm not going to risk lives over a traffic violation or even a stolen vehicle.
                      And so what about a chooper. Is it going to land and give them a ticket? Sorry, we are the police and we need to police. Otherwise, the whole system eventually breaks down.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 21blue28
                        And so what about a chooper. Is it going to land and give them a ticket? Sorry, we are the police and we need to police. Otherwise, the whole system eventually breaks down.
                        Oh yes, I was implying that the helicopter be the only one pursuing. No offense, but use a little sense and don't read too much into my statement. Obviously ground units would be close but not actively pursuing the vehicle should the pursuit get too dangerous.

                        I agree that we should "get the bad guys," but I also agree that there is a risk factor that one has to weigh to allow a pursuit to continue. This is where I and my counterparts (supervisors) have to make the decision.
                        I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SgtScott31
                          I don't think anyone can understand any pursuit policy until you've been in the field to realize it's not all it's cut out to be. Especially don't go by the media and what you see on TV. My dept has a very strict policy. Only aggravated felonies that are an immediate risk to public safety condone a pursuit in my dept. I believe for good reason.

                          I say the best way to keep a pursuit safe (if there is such a thing as a safe pursuit) is keep it airborne. No vehicle is going to hide or outrun a chopper.

                          I believe in pursuits in extreme cases, but the less I can put the public at risk, the better. I'm not going to risk lives over a traffic violation or even a stolen vehicle.
                          Yea I'm with you (as noted above) on the whole chopper thing. It's frustrating to be without one although I'm sure they're not cheap to maintain.
                          For those who want to argue religion, my views are in the sig. This avoids days of repetition and is convenient. Thanks and good luck in your quest.

                          Answering Infidels
                          Faith issues
                          Challenging hardcore atheism
                          Reasonable Faith

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SgtScott31
                            Oh yes, I was implying that the helicopter be the only one pursuing. No offense, but use a little sense and don't read too much into my statement. Obviously ground units would be close but not actively pursuing the vehicle should the pursuit get too dangerous.

                            I agree that we should "get the bad guys," but I also agree that there is a risk factor that one has to weigh to allow a pursuit to continue. This is where I and my counterparts (supervisors) have to make the decision.
                            I know plenty of SGT's that would break off any pursuit for "safety reasons." I believe the real reason is liability, though. I am all for safety to a degree. Sometimes, you break the law (no matter how small), you have got to pay. If it is reasonably safe, I say chase for anything.

                            For example: A seatbelt violation at 3 in the AM in a business section of town ...... chase him til the tires fall off. If the situation changes, then it changes and you re-evalute. You catch the b#stard, get creative in the charges so he (and his buddies) will think twice about running.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MDS
                              Yea I'm with you (as noted above) on the whole chopper thing. It's frustrating to be without one although I'm sure they're not cheap to maintain.
                              Somebody must explain to me what this "chopper" is that you speak of. Is that one of those flying machines?

                              If I happen to get into a pursuit, we need to rely on ground units pretty much 100% of the time.
                              It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses....Hit it!

                              Comment

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