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  • Is it any wonder? ctx

    Is it any wonder that the jobs of LEOs gets more difficult with each passing year? I'm referring specifically to problems with juveniles, which later translates into problems with these same individuals as adults.

    I teach 5th grade and work part-time as a cop. I just finished tallying my discipline referrals for the year. With 3 weeks of school remaining, they total 123. That is 123 times that I couldn't rectify the problem in class or by calling parents(assuming there is a contact number), or by assigning detention.

    Why so many referrals...especially in 5th grade? It boils down to 2 things, I believe. Lack of discipline in the home and lack of accountability by the administration at school.

    When I send a student to the office, it is because I have run out of options in the classroom. I've gone through the phone calls, the write-offs, the after-school detentions, and in some cases, the application of corporal punishment.

    So, when these students make it to the office, more severe punishment awaits them in the form of paddlings, in-school suspensions, home suspensions, alternative school placement and expulsion, right?

    WRONG! Principals are under TREMENDOUS pressure by school boards to reduce the numbers of suspensions, alternative school placements and expulsions. So what do they do when a student is sent to the office? Why, they assign them write-offs, make phone calls to parents(assuming there is a contact number), and assign them to detention. Sound familiar?

    So, instead of being 'punished', these young, impressionable students learn very fast that there IS no true 'punishment' and that THEY aren't held accountable for their actions....which translates to BIG headaches and future problems for LEOs down the road.

    BTW, those 123 referrals are from LESS THAN 5% of the students I have.

    Sorry for the rant....
    "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
    -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

  • #2
    Shooter,

    From this and everything you've posted on this Board, I'd say you go the extra mile for your students. That's not something a person just up and decides to do one day--it has to come from within. You sound like a very caring person and I know as the years pass, you will have made a significant difference in the lives of many of your students. THAT matters.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by shooter1201:
      ...BTW, those 123 referrals are from LESS THAN 5% of the students I have....
      Interesting, as I believe that about 5% of the general population is responsible for 99% of the crime in society as well.

      There are bad apples, whether you're in a classroom or a housing project.

      Too bad we can't just add a little more chlorine to the gene pool!

      Shooter, I sure don't envy your job one bit. Keep up the good work!

      G.A.

      ------------------
      No cops, know anarchy.

      "He aint finna come all up in my house and act a fool and be gettin away with it cause I will go smooth off." -Movista
      No cops, know anarchy.

      "He aint finna come all up in my house and act a fool and be gettin away with it cause I will go smooth off." -Movista

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree with lack of discipline at home. When our son was born, I was amazed at how my parental abilities differed from my husband. My husband was raised in a well-to-do family and, to be honest, was a spoiled rotten brat rarely disciplined. I was raised is a not so-well-to-do family where I was taught to BEHAVE and I treasured all my things I had because I rarely got anything.
        As our son got older, we had a lot of marital problems because of this. He gave our son much more freedom then he should have had and I was always the one having to be the "mean" parent. When my husband told our son he "didn't have to listen to his mother because she was stupid", he didn't like the reaction he got. We seperated for 3 months and went to counseling. I took my son with me and we honsestly had a very nice young man when we reconciled. I told my husband that if we had anymore trouble, I would not come back this time. Well, he listened. It wasn't easy for him but he did learn to present a united front eventually. And we ended up with a very nice, mature young man who knew he had boundaries...something his father didn't have growing up.
        Perfect parents we aren't but our son benefited from us both caring at least.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by shooter1201:


          Why so many referrals...especially in 5th grade? It boils down to 2 things, I believe. Lack of discipline in the home and lack of accountability by the administration at school.


          Sorry for the rant....[/B]
          It is so strange that i just had a conversation with an 11 year old about this subject. She informs me that she had to make an excuse as to why she did not have a boyfriend to her friends at school. I was floored by her response that at 11 she was even thinking about having a boyfriend. I asked her why would she have to make an excuse and she said all the girls in her 5th grade class have a boyfriend.
          Her mom was so upset, she said how about you tell your friends that your mom will just plain kick your [email protected]# for having a boyfriend at the age of 11. Then the child proceeds to tell me most of the fifth graders have tried alcohol and drugs in her class. I just thought what the hell!!! And she acted like it was no big deal.
          I am truly scared for these kids nowadays. I could not even remembering if i liked boys at 11, let alone wanted a boyfriend. But your right it has to be lack of discipline at home. I also think it has alot to do with both parents being the work force and not spending alot of time with the kids. And before anyone gets the case of the red a$# i am one of those parents. And i have watched my son go from this sweet shy child to a child who thinks he has to fit in by acting like a little hood rat. Its just a shame that many 2 parent households are forced to work because of low paying jobs.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with Sandy that you sound like a very caring individual, Shooter. However, this problem is more than just good, caring people like teachers and cops can deal with.

            We should be providing better, communinty- based coalitions of: parents, school personnel, health/ mental health, law enforcement, and elected officials to tackle the seemingly insurmountable problems we face with troubled youth today. What we need to do is increase funding, and public focus upon: support services within schools, social services groups, and for the juvenile court systems. We need to ensure that children who are at risk for dangerous behaviour- have better access to treatment and monitoring by health/ mental health professionals.

            I worked with children (in private practice) in UK. For richer or poorer, I can assure you there is NO substitute for parental love, involvement, and support. Children need a sound, secure, moral and value system within the home!

            There is a National Health Service in the UK- but I can assure you that the situation there, is not any better for it. Seems like (in both the US and UK), we have a combination of parents who simply can't or wont parent- and an overworked, understaffed, and underpaid national support system.

            [This message has been edited by blondie72 (edited 05-08-2001).]
            [email protected] "Where there is love, there is no imposition"- Albert Einstien.

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            • #7
              I have worked with the troubled youth on and off most of my life.

              Each weekend (stops in the summer) a small group of us run a soup kitchen for them. Those that attend are young, poor, homeless, addicts, and it pulls at your heart. When we serve them they eat like they know they arn't going to eat again for awhile.

              They take coffee in paper cups out to the street corner and sell it and come back and get some more. They sit with us for over an hour and laugh and talk like they don't have a care in the world, knowing that eventually they are going back out into the street to find some way to pass the time of their life.

              I believe that hope mainly rests with resourses available that don't shut the door after they blow it once or twice. These kids need more then one chance. I really get ticked off by people who say, "well sorry he/she can't stay here because they blew the curfew 2 months ago. Hmmm, okay, then let them stay outside in the freezing winter because they blew your curfew a couple months ago. Kids need chances and more chances. People need to be more creative in the manner in which rules are set and enforced.

              The other popular line is "well, sorry, I can't help him/her unless they meet us half way." Hmmmmmm, so lets throw the kids away that won't meet you half way. Goodness.. meet the kid 70% because there might be a chance that down the road the kid will come 50% of the way.

              We are the adults they are the kids.

              I think we loose alot because solutions to youth get grouped similiar. You don't treat a double murder youth with the same gloves you treat the runaway. Each kid needs to be treated with their "own gloves" so to say.

              I once Co-led a cognitive moral restructuring group with 10 troubled youth. It was really wonderful watching the response of these kids when in the right environment with the right guidance and the right support.

              Which brings me to what I was going to initially say..... The importance of "proper" parental/adult guidance and support is so crucial. Again I have to refer to creative ways that are needed to accomplish this even with 2 working parents. Those without parents or adults caring for them (I'm thinking without guardians or aunts/uncles that they could live) whether in a group home or even a detention home need the same.

              Comment


              • #8
                Our son once left home as a teenager because he didn't like the rules. He was gone 2 days (the worst 2 days of my life) then called to borrow more money to stay out longer. Of course, we didn't give it to him and he came home that night. We all laugh about it now.
                But, having a loving, caring home IS everything.
                My ex-daughter-in-law came from the exact opposite childhood as our son. She seemed to like the homey, loving environment of our home but she was also being very emotionally abused by her parents, as usual. She was telling me that she AND her brother left home and the parents never came looking for them. She came back, where she continues to live on the finge of the family, trying to make parents that don't care care. They have no idea where he 18 year old brother is and don't care.
                I simply could not imagine not knowing where my son was. The teenage years were difficult but David knew he was loved and always will be. Too many times, I've heard other frineds of mine say, "I'm through. I got the this far and now it's my time in life." I agree children should fly the nest but they always should know where it is.
                I always greet my son with open arms but I've seen my friends tell their kids that they can come over on "Thursday" or some such nonsense.
                I won't stop being a mother til I'm in my grave.

                Comment


                • #9
                  When I read this post, one thing came to mind; me. I grew up in San Bernardino, California and didn't have the best role models (Outside the home). It was a daily occurrence to go to sleep at the sound of sirens and having the occasional criminal run through our backyard trying to escape police. Most of you who know me, know me as a younger person (19 y/o)going into law enforcement. Man, I hated cops so badly when I was growing up. I wasn't the best of kids either, claiming gangs (although never actually getting jumped in) and threatening neighbors all the time. I posted this little glimpse into my life because I wanted to add the note that some people do change. Thank God I've never actually gotten in trouble by law enforcement, and to this day I still have a clean record. I don't use profanity, smoke, drink, do drugs, have sex, etc. Just keep in mind that your worst student may grow up to be a good person helping others. I know I did. God bless.

                  Godside

                  ------------------
                  -----------------------------------------------
                  Psalms 118:6 - "The Lord is on my side, whom shall I fear? What can man do to me?"

                  Questions/Comments?Contact me on AIM/AOL, at "GodsideJCC".
                  -----------------------------------------------

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                  • #10
                    I liken it to a minefield. If you can make it through it, a good person comes out on the other side. You made it through!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am glad to know there are still people who can change. I was wondering after all that has happened this pass weekend if kids that come from family's who have problems inherit those problems then continue the cycle. It seems to me if your dad is an alcoholic and your mom uses drugs do you have a greater chance of being just like them because that was the way you were raised. It just seems like a cycle that goes on forever until someone can break it and say no more. I for one had a semi abusive parent and stepparent, but as an adult who has children, i will not spank them at all because i feel like if i got started i might not be strong enough to stop and i might turn into my parents figuratively speaking of course. I hope this is not the case because i know a newly orphaned 10 year old who has the hardest struggle of her life to come.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well I would bet that every one of us knows at least one person who was raised in a "good" home and has ended up as a drunk, doper, jail bird or whatever. I would also bet that we each know at least one person who was raised in "bad" circumstances, and went on to make something of themselves.

                        I'm not saying that how you were raised does not matter. However I am saying that our society sees way to many folks crying about how they "can't help it that I'm this way, look at my parents."

                        People need to take responsibility for their OWN actions.

                        ------------------
                        **Blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape.**
                        6P1 (retired)
                        6P1 (retired)

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                        • #13
                          I has a mother who was extremely abusive. I had a lot of problems as a youngster that still amaze me. I was one of a set of identical twins, one who was totally accepted (my sister) and one who wasn't (guess who? ) But, I did not turn out to be like my mother. I am exactly the opposite, maybe because I know what it feels like to be berated day in and day out.
                          But, my mother is EXACTLY like her mother. I guess it has to do with the choices you make and what you are aware of. My mother is a very pitiful person now because she has 2 kids (my brother also) who won't speak to her. But, she made choices that I KNOW she knew were wrong an didn't care.

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                          • #14
                            Both my parents are college professors. I am the oldest of 2 children. I am a teacher and cop. *I* am the one that turned out 'good'.

                            My sister is 18 months younger. She gave up a wonderful husband, lost her business and kids...all to heroin. I've watched her sucker my folks out of over $100K during the past 15 years. They wouldn't give up 'hope'. That's until my dad checked the house he was renting her one day while she was gone.

                            One Christmas, she was gone for about a week, and he went in to check the pipes. He called me and wanted me to come over. In her bedroom were several fairly healthy marijuana plants. That was the 'last straw'.

                            He packed up her stuff and had it on the porch when she got back. As soon as she had all her stuff out, he sold the house so she wouldn't be able to 'come back'.

                            It had been almost 3 years since I had seen her, then a few months ago, I was on duty, taking my lunch break. A woman came up to me and called me by name. At first, I didn't recognize her. It was my sister.

                            I was civil, said 'Hello. How you doing?' and left....

                            I used to kid my mom about 'bringing the WRONG baby home from the hospital.' However, she is JUST LIKE my dad's sister. Must be something genetic.

                            ------------------
                            HEARTS and MINDS
                            "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
                            -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              How sad, shooter. I saw my sister at Thanksgiving but have not seen my brother in 20 years. My mother's manic depression drove us all apart. It got so bad that my mother actually tried to kidnap his 3 little ones. He had no contact with the family for years because he feared my mother would find him. He contacted my sister and we are all going to try to make it for my father's birthday. I'm not sure how it will go because my mother is acting squirrley since she found out he has been in contact. So, I may see him, I may not.
                              It is sad that your sister chose her road but only she can help herself now.

                              Comment

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