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    Niteshift
    No Longer Active

  • Niteshift
    replied
    "We're not at war with the "camel-herding" guy who lives in the "two bedroom" cave that Toby sings about to the giggles of his audience either."

    Hmmm, we were fighting with people hiding in caves........

    "You asked what I thought of US WWII propaganda directed at the axis powers (Japanese included?) That's what I was referring to."

    And I bet you'd have laughed your butt off at the cartoons etc. And I didn't specify propaganda (giving the implication that it's govt. run), but political cartoons etc.

    "Segregation wasn't accepted by everyone. Neither was interrment based solely on race."

    I never said it was accepted by everyone. What I'm pointing out is that you fancy yourself as some sort of free-thinker, but I question whether or not you would have been back then. Neither of us can say for certain, but if it makes you feel better to say you would, then make yourself feel better.

    Leave a comment:

  • Guest
    Guest

  • Frank Booth
    Guest replied
    quote:
    Did I say with Afghanistan? Or was Afghanistan where the people we were at war with located?

    We're not at war with the "camel-herding" guy who lives in the "two bedroom" cave that Toby sings about to the giggles of his audience either.

    quote:
    First, Muslims/Arabs aren't a race. They are a religion and/or ethnicity. Just wanted to clear that up for you.
    You asked what I thought of US WWII propaganda directed at the axis powers (Japanese included?) That's what I was referring to.

    quote:
    We'd all like to think that. But we truly don't know. At that time segregation was commonplace and accepted and we didn't have the benefit of the experience that we do now.
    Segregation wasn't accepted by everyone. Neither was interrment based solely on race.

    Leave a comment:

  • Niteshift
    No Longer Active

  • Niteshift
    replied
    "We're not at war with Afghanistan."

    Did I say with Afghanistan? Or was Afghanistan where the people we were at war with located?

    "If they relied on making a race of people look like monkies, gorillas, etc., then yes."

    First, Muslims/Arabs aren't a race. They are a religion and/or ethnicity. Just wanted to clear that up for you.

    Second, I didn't see a statement in what you quoted about the ENTIRE group. I see statements about the subjects of the song, who are parts of a group.

    "I'd like to think that almost 60 years ago I would have also been against putting people in prison camps based solely on their race."

    We'd all like to think that. But we truly don't know. At that time segregation was commonplace and accepted and we didn't have the benefit of the experience that we do now.

    Leave a comment:

  • Bob A
    Forum Member

  • Bob A
    replied
    I looked at the "map of Palestine" on the site linked in Nite's post. What these people call Palestine is Israel. I don't care who used to be there, how it came to be, or why, but the fact is that it is now Israel, just as Florida was once the Seminole's region (American Indians did not think of the land as property as we do) and what was once Persia is now Iran.

    There was never an organized government called Palestine, at least as we would recognize it today. This was true of most Arab controlled areas prior to WWI, and the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

    Somebody please explain to me why we should feel for the poor Palestinians. BTW, if we don't get a handle on illegal immigration in this country, we'll have the same problem here in 10 or 20 years.

    Leave a comment:

  • Guest
    Guest

  • Frank Booth
    Guest replied
    quote:
    Tell that to the Palestinian President and legislature. I'm sure they'll be interested in knowing that they don't exist.
    '

    Logistics prevent me from doing that, but I have talked to plenty of Palestinians, and they're the ones who tell me there is no Palestine.

    quote:
    Another thing that occured to me later: Have we become so enamored with political correctness that we can't poke fun at people we are in a war with?
    We're not at war with Afghanistan.

    quote:
    Or maybe those Burma Shave ads about the three Axis leaders. Would you have been talking so loud about the "stereotyping"?
    If they relied on making a race of people look like monkies, gorillas, etc., then yes. I'd like to think that almost 60 years ago I would have also been against putting people in prison camps based solely on their race.

    Leave a comment:

  • foxtrot
    Forum Member

  • foxtrot
    replied


    [ 12-22-2002, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: foxtrot ]

    Leave a comment:

  • Bob A
    Forum Member

  • Bob A
    replied
    Tell that to the Palestinian President and legislature. I'm sure they'll be interested in knowing that they don't exist.

    I sure didn't know they exist. Are you talking about Arafat? Most of the (non-Arab) world does not recognize the "Palestinians" as a nation. As a culture, or something like that maybe. There's a lot of history there, but the only government I've noticed who really seems to take them seriously is the Isrealis. I'm not really "up" on this part of the world, so I'm not trying to bust anybody's chops, but it seems to me that these people are considered by most to be refugees and nothing more.

    Leave a comment:

  • Deputy Joe
    Forum Rookie

  • Deputy Joe
    replied
    You guys should hear Toby Keith's song. I'll never smoke weed with Willie again. It is available at BobandTom.com

    I don't think we could argue as much about that one. It is quite funny.

    Leave a comment:

  • Niteshift
    No Longer Active

  • Niteshift
    replied
    "My horizons are sufficiently broad to know when a nation exists and when it doesn't."

    Tell that to the Palestinian President and legislature. I'm sure they'll be interested in knowing that they don't exist.

    "Israel has reoccupied nearly all the territory it had ceded to the Palestinians in the West Bank during the Oslo peace process."

    NEARLY all. Who is in the rest of it Frank? Microsoft?

    "Not a thing, but if you get some yucks from some artist's stereotypes, don't be all cranky when someone stereotypes a group with which you claim affiliation."

    Another thing that occured to me later: Have we become so enamored with political correctness that we can't poke fun at people we are in a war with? I don't know Frank, would you have been so against political cartoons and charactures during WW2 that made Nazi's look like buffoons? Or maybe those Burma Shave ads about the three Axis leaders. Would you have been talking so loud about the "stereotyping"?

    "I merely asserted that j*** artists tend to be a bit more sophisticated than a guy who sings about camel-herding cave dwellers."

    An assertion based on what? How do you know how "sophisticated" Toby Keith is or is not? Do you know him and have some inside knowledge? Or are you making a guess based on your personal stereotypes? Do you think that George Clooney is more medically knowledgable because he plays a doctor or that Andy Griffith might be a good guy in the courtroom because he plays a lawyer? How does it connect? All mentioned are playing a role.

    "I went to a Quiet Riot show down at Kunsan AB (Korea).A few months ago was Charlie Daniels Band. Before that was Wayne Newton and some little jailbait country singer girl..But Drew Carey was there too so that kind of made up for it. Ozzy Osbourne played a show up at Camp Casey last spring.
    Before this last year I've seen in various countries...Gloria Estafan, Jon Secada, Icewater Mansion, Alanna Davis, Boys 2 men, and RunDMC from before the shooting."


    And off the top of my head, only one of those acts has had a top 20 record in the past 5 years....... Charlie Daniels, the country act. And I happen to really like Gloria Estafan.

    Leave a comment:

  • Hemtt
    Forum Member

  • Hemtt
    replied
    Hey guys i don't know if my opinion has any bearing on this but I'm counting...
    last week I went to a Quiet Riot show down at Kunsan AB (Korea).A few months ago was Charlie Daniels Band. Before that was Wayne Newton and some little jailbait country singer girl..But Drew Carey was there too so that kind of made up for it. Ozzy Osbourne played a show up at Camp Casey last spring.
    Before this last year I've seen in various countries...Gloria Estafan, Jon Secada, Icewater Mansion, Alanna Davis, Boys 2 men, and RunDMC from before the shooting.
    While there are some popular performers on the USO ticket. They usually take a pretty big shot to the wallet because the military can only offer to pay a little compared to the amount the performer would make throwing a paying concert somewhere.
    Because of the Weather in the States I've noticed that we tend to get more Country acts during the winter when the State Fair and Rodeo Circuits are on winter hold. Other performers are less seasonal as the performances depend less on the presence of livestock and wide open spaces.
    I have to say that the OSU is doing a lot better these days because when I first came in the shows were pretty much a preview of next weeks Hollywood Squares.
    quote:
    Speaking of stereotypes though, what percentage of service men and women do you think are really into j***?
    Lets see, we have a grand total of 2 American Radio stations here. In a 24 hour day we get a roughly alternating schedule of Pop, R&B, Classic J***(Ie. Good J***), Contemporary J*** (Kenny G CRAP!), and Country. In our rather diverse environment in the Military it turns out that often the only thing we can ALL agree on IS J***. So don't assume anything about us.
    quote:
    "I'm just a middle aged, Middle Eastern,
    Camel-herdin' man,
    I've got a two bedroom cave here
    in Afghanistan."???

    I bet that plays well to the Southern, toothless, fat-hog-of-a-wife havin' Ford drivin' Redneck crowd, doesn't it?

    And while I am but a Poor, Whitetrash Country Bumpkin I can locate Palestine on a map. This is because I've traveled through the area of the middle east a great deal over the last 8 years. I have met a lot of nice, interesting people in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, The UAE and several other places. A good deal of them were CAMEL HERDERS. Because that's what the job is there. If you're a REAL Saudi or Kuwaiti Citizen, you don't work. There are people for that. They heard Camels, Horses, Pigs, Goats, and everything else. This is because of the absence of large Software Corperations with good 401K's in the middle of the desert.
    If people are lucky, they have a home of rock with a couple rooms, some scrappy furniture, and a blanket to hang over the doorway. Mostly they live in shanty's they build from scraps so they can move around with the animals they tend.
    I've spent a lot of time in these shacks, Wearing my American Military uniform, sharing tea and crackers with a family I cannot verbally communicate with.
    Poor struggling Middle Eastern Tribesmen, (Which are what most of the people doing the work in those countrys are.) Are Proud and Noble people who do not need you to stick up for them.
    They deal with the poverty of their life every day with a smile. You should too.
    Don't generalize anyone according to your opinion. If you don't like the song change the station or put a CD in. You'd be better off arguing about things you understand.

    Will Coy

    Leave a comment:

  • Guest
    Guest

  • Frank Booth
    Guest replied
    quote:
    What's wrong with a little whoopin' and hollarin'? I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but sometimes stereotypical statements are not the best thing.
    Not a thing, but if you get some yucks from some artist's stereotypes, don't be all cranky when someone stereotypes a group with which you claim affiliation.

    quote:
    You simply presume that because I like some of his songs that I must agree with everything he says. I'm a M*A*S*H fan, but I don't agree with Mike Farrell's support of Mumia either. I can like an artist without agreeing with them on every detail.
    I didn't presume anything. I merely asserted that j*** artists tend to be a bit more sophisticated than a guy who sings about camel-herding cave dwellers.

    quote:
    As far as you know? Perhaps you should broaden your horizons Frank. Here is a good place to start: http://www.palestine-net.com/ Besure to visit the geography section while you are there.

    My horizons are sufficiently broad to know when a nation exists and when it doesn't.

    In 1967, Israel fought its Arab neighbors in the 6 day war after Egyptian President Gamal Nasser closed the straights of Tiran to Israeli ships and threatened a war to destroy Israel. Israel conquered all of the Sinai peninsula and Gaza strip that had been held by Egypt. After Jordan began firing on Israeli towns and took over the post of the UN Commissioner in Jerusalem, Israel attacked the Jordanian held West Bank. The Palestinians in those areas came under Israeli rule. Israel began to build Jewish settlements in these territories. In 1987, Palestinians began a rebellion against the Israeli occupation, the intifada, but this had apparently failed by 1991.

    Beginning in 1993, the Oslo agreements promised gradual withdrawal of Israel from the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Palestinians were hopeful that this process would end in a state for them. However, following breakdown of the final status negotiations in the summer of 2000, riots erupted in September 2000 when Israeli right wing political leader Ariel Sharon paid a controversial visit to the Al Aqsa mosque, holy to Muslims. The mosque stands on the site of the ancient Jewish temple. Palestinians refused to accept the agreement offered by US President Clinton in December 2000, and violence has continued since then. Israel has reoccupied nearly all the territory it had ceded to the Palestinians in the West Bank during the Oslo peace process.

    Now, if you know of anything that happened since the Oslo agreements that granted statehood to Palestine, I'm all ears. I know where Yugoslavia used to be, and I can even show it to you on a map, but in the real world, there ain't no Yugoslavia anymore.

    [ 12-19-2002, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Frank Booth ]

    Leave a comment:


  • 555
    replied
    quote:
    Originally posted by Niteshift:


    Second, I first noticed while I was overseas in the Army that it was country singers coming to visit and perform for us. Same in Desert Storm and lately in Afghanistan. I don't see hip-hop artists or j*** or rock artists....it's country singers.

    This doesn't imply it? Country singers support the troops the rest of them don't...

    Leave a comment:

  • jellybean40
    Cops Best Friend

  • jellybean40
    replied
    quote:
    Originally posted by metp1264:
    [QB]Jellybean,
    There is a lot of good music out there, but it seems like they can't play two good songs in a row. I listen to just about anything from Metallica to Dave Matthews to Vanessa Carlton, but as of late it has been pretty much country. I really can't stand rap.

    If a decent concert comes to town, I usually consider going. In fact the next time U2 tours, I hope to go...even if I have to travel a couple of hours.

    OK, youre forgiven ((((metp1264)))) ...j/k lol... [Wink] all the music you named is good music, i saw Vanessa Carlton and she was great.

    Yeah there are some not-so-great radio stations out there... here in the Philly area the best (IMO) is Y-100, but they do play some rap. not what i would consider the hard-core stuff, but they play Eminem, Beasty Boys, that type stuff. i mainly like the alternative/indie rock they play.

    ok...back on topic...

    [ 12-19-2002, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: jellybean40 ]

    Leave a comment:

  • Niteshift
    No Longer Active

  • Niteshift
    replied
    "It was implied"

    I can only be responsible for what I said, not what you read.

    "Nobody here seemed to think any less of TK when I brought up his stereotyping, but I make a (purposeful) generalization about Southern males and look what happens."

    I've never heard the song you are referring to, so I can't really comment on it. However, I never said I agreed with the stereotype. You simply presume that because I like some of his songs that I must agree with everything he says. I'm a M*A*S*H fan, but I don't agree with Mike Farrell's support of Mumia either. I can like an artist without agreeing with them on every detail.

    "By the way, if you don't think Arab Americans would be offended by TK's "Camel-herding, cave-dwelling" line, think again."

    And who among us said they weren't offended? Of course, Arabs aren't exactly his target demographic now is it? Do you suppose that the rap song "*********" was designed to get more LEO fans?

    "Well, I never was very good at geography, but as far as I know, the last time Palestine existed as a country, Sha Na Na was a household name, Yasser Arafat notwithstanding."

    As far as you know? Perhaps you should broaden your horizons Frank. Here is a good place to start: http://www.palestine-net.com/ Besure to visit the geography section while you are there.

    "Who really cares whether country bands play overseas for soldiers more than other music genres!!!! In the grand scheme of things, does this really matter!?!"

    I'd suggest that you re-read the questions. The question was why? And I'm sure that this thread has equally important value on the social scale as threads about MikeTX wearing dresses or about you-know-whos butt.

    Leave a comment:

  • Chief Wiggum
    I Pleedz the Fizifth

  • Chief Wiggum
    replied
    quote:
    Originally posted by Watchman:
    555,
    you said;
    It was implied

    It was not "implied". It was ASSUMED by you and wrongly so.

    Once again you are making an issue out if something that is not there. Are you taking your medication ?

    Maybe you should reword the question because I certainly thought it was implied (along with the 5 other people here with me 2 of which are big country fans).

    As far as country music bring more patriotic I would have to agree. I'm sure that many country stars are very patriotic. They know their fans and they know that it's the kind of stuff they want to hear. I personally don't like country nor do I look to my music for patriotic inspiration. I've served my country as have many members of my family. I don't need or want a song to tell me how I should feel about my country. HOWEVER, I also think that SOME of these "patriotic" songs are just unimaginative pandering and they are just trying to make a buck off of people's sentements. This makes me absolutely sick.

    [ 12-19-2002, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Chief Wiggum ]

    Leave a comment:

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